the following from the Tybee Island Race Event Committee



-The checkpoints we are now working on are as follows:



Monday May 12, 2003 (Start)

Islamorada, Fl to Hollywood, Fl (checkpoint to be announced)



Tuesday May 13, 2003

Hollywood to Ft. Pierce, Fl (to be announced)



Wednesday May 14, 2003

Ft. Pierce to Melbourne-Cocoa Beach, Fl Area (TBA)



Thursday May 15, 2003

Mel/cocoa to Daytona/Ormond Beach Area (TBA)



Friday May 16, 2003

Day/Ormond to Jacksonville-Fernandina Beach Area (TBA)



Saturday May 17, 2003

Jaxs/Fern to Tybee Island, Ga. (Finish)



end -

It is a great looking course , 100 mile first leg and a hundred plus mile finish ,-the whole race in 6 days ,



Know not all potential partisipants read catsailor forums , but was curious about how many 20s will potentially enter .

The race organizers are still currently undesided on how to structure the event , with FORMULA classes or some other structure or inclusion of particular manufacterers boats .

Can cat sailors post or send an e on their thoughts on this race and how to promote Formula racing and the sport in general in 03 .



thanks

Carl

Any interested in this race should contact team Tybee



http://www.teamtybee.com/



and let them know your ideas on the race ,--what you may sail ,--and preference for a Formula format .



E-mail address contact is on the team website



http://www.teamtybee.com/

Hi Carl



Assuming that I20's and Nacra 6.0NA's are likely to be the most popular boats.



What changes (or spin size limitiations) to each boat (if any) would be needed to fit your proposed formula?



Take Care

Mark

Hi Mark



Happy to see your interest ,-but understood distance racing like this one is ,--"not your cup of tea " ---just curious if you are considering the Tybee 500 ,---

Ocean races like this are a great experience for any ,-highly recommend it ,--

It of course offers the partisipant the experience and knowledge unique to this type of event , which is always somewhat helpfull if they wish to understand the nature and concerns of partisipants in this type of ocean racing distance event ,--very different from buoys triangle racing .

Boat prep is priority , especially when you realize your life may depend on it being set up properly ,-it is a very different mindset .



Again ,-your reference in your post is to "your formula " and would good naturedly remind again that it is not mine but is a direvitive of Formula 20 adopted to N A , based on existing designs available here . Please just refer to it as the N A Formula 20 class ,----thanks very much

and again being near Holloween would remind :--again good naturedly ' ---to paraphrase Dr Frackenstein in the spirit of the season ,---IT IS ALIVE !!!!! ,---

DESPITE -someone numerous times pronouncing it dead , who shall remain nameless , but just refered to in the future as a mob of ignorant ,-superstitious ,-mindless village folk with torches ready , again in the spirit of the season and story line .



-As per rules 270 sq ft spin ,--and 300 sq ft spin ,--sizes are set for boat weights of 376 to 410 lb,---and 410 and above respectively to equalize boat weight differences of existing designs in the 20 ft 8.5 beam N A Formula 20 catagory .

{see how easy the N A Formula thing is } ---

As many know these large powerfull boats often favor heavier teams with their large sail areas ,--thus no fat boy type rule is needed ,-or crew weight consideration . Av crew weight is 360 , many race competitively at 400 lb crew weights , again often needed on these very powerfull cat designs particularly in ocean racing conditions.



Also per rules -Older Existing class regulated boats may recieve dispensation to race as they are. We need to confir with several knowledgable sailors with extensive time on both types of existing versions .Would seek the opinion of Rick , Steve and Kenny ,-Randy ,-Matt ,-and a number of Worrell teams ,again that have direct experience and numerous miles on these cat designs, The concept is to keep existing older designs equally competitive in the class.



Having been a part of racing way back when in the Worrell ,-seeing mods to 10 foot racks ,--40 ft wing masts ,-12 ft beams plus ,-planning hulls ,--giant chutes ,-all the rest , can assure you P-rating is not up to the task of regulating this type of race , if this is still your "mission statement " and agenda .

Be happy to talk to you directly about it , my experiences and why Formula is the ideal format for this type of racing .



Have fun -

Sail safe -

Happy Holloween ---

IT IS ALIVE !!!!!!



side note ,--my favorite version of the movie is with Gene Wilder and Marty Feldman ,--that,s Fruankensteen -

puttun on the ritz ! musical number ,----hope its on soon !



Carl



--

-As per rules 270 sq ft spin ,--and 300 sq ft spin ,--sizes are set for boat weights of 376 to 410 lb,---and 410 and above respectively to equalize boat weight differences of existing designs in the 20 ft 8.5 beam N A Formula 20 catagory .



Ok.

Am I correct in these statements.



I 20's will race with the US sailplan (larger US main) and 25 square meter spin (existing EU and US sized spin).



Nacra 6.0's NA will race with existing NA sailplan and a 300 square meter chute or approx 26 sq meter chute. Note: This sail is smaller then the New England 6.0 NA class chute of 350 square feet or 27 to 28 sq meters) or the previous Worrell 1000 unlimited chutes of god only knows what dimensions..



I am bringing this up in this context in order to move the ball forwards here. The 6.0 owners are negotiating and debating a class spin size of 350 square feet. Now is the time to align the sailplan in concert with the formula 20 rule.... or align the rule with the class.



The opportunity exists to do something deliberate and with fore thought about formula 20 racing for the next few years.



While getting cat sailors to agree on anything is akin to herding cats (see super bowl advert a year or so ago)... the Tybee organiziing committe can make the debate essentiall moot by declaring a standard formula 20 rule for the event.



Seems to me like the variable that is free and able to be modified (somewhat) is the 6.0 spin size... If formula 20 racing is to happen a deliberate decision must be made promptly.





This might just be the kick in the pants to get the ball rolling!!!





Disclaimer:

As Carl noted... I have no dog in this fight... I sail a Tornado they do not like to roll up beaches therefore I do not plan on racing this particular distance race.

Hi Mark -

Will work on finding a crew spot on a different F-20 design you could sail and race the Tybee 500 on .









It is ALIVE !!!



Have fun

Sail safe



Carl -

Carl

The 300sft. spinnaker won't work on the 6.0( too small, too slow). I have been sailing against the 6.0's with the 350sft "new england" spinnaker. As of now they have not been a match for the I20. We sailing two weekend race together. We have raced in light air and heavy air. Not much medium stuff. We have sailed 13 races against each other this year. So far the score is I20 11 wins- 6.0 2.wins. Some of that may be to the 6.0's not sailing the cans with chutes very much, although it was against the 6.0 national champ. We need more data on this. I hope they will sail with us more next year. I would say the the end pole snuffer system they are using is not the best set up. It is so low that if the waves are 3'+ the suffer will drag upwind. I think they are going to have to go with the mid pole setup.

Good to hear from you Barry ,

thanks so much for the input .



Been trying to ask a number of catsailors on the comparison of the 6/0 s with the Smyth 346 sq ft chute ,-to the I -20 -



Per rules owners of existing class boats may recieve what is termed --"dispensation " in all formula classes to allow them to compete . Allowing the N E class N 6/0 this makes perfect sence ,-it has a smaller main and heavier mast and rigging offsetting the larger chute as compensation .

I would like to hear from other knowledgable catsailors on this with direct experience as well ..



The dispensation aspect is interesting ,-I,m honestly not sure of how to set a standard criteria for allowing it for owners of existing older designs .

Once allowed in one class The question becomes should it be allowed in others ,-like the H-20 for example with its heavier comp tip , Watched with great interest as Kevin won the RTI distance race this year on a H-20 w spin , beating a number of well sailed 20s evan up . --good stuff -

Let us know what aspects of rules may be expanded on ,and how we can include not only the N E 6/0s but all 20s out there . Ideally what any would like to see occur in the 03 season .

thanks

Carl

Hi Barry



The statue race suggests the opposite. several of the 6.0's with NE chutes seem to finish ahead of the I 20's boat for boat..

Not sure what that means either.



Further support for a small chute comes from the texel ratings.

The Texel rating for a 6.0 would be close to 91 or 92 with a 28 sq meter chute.

the US 120 would measure in at 94

While the Tornado would measure in at 95 along with a euro I20 (smaller main)



I don't know that I believe these numbers but there they are.



In your opinion, to make the boats level what size chute is required to make the boats essentially level rated around the buoys (assuming the snuffer is not a factor in the waves)



Trying to move the ball here.



Mark

mark wrote -



"The statue race suggests the opposite. several of the 6.0's with NE chutes seem to finish ahead of the I 20's boat for boat..

Not sure what that means either. '"

end



What this means to most is that different 20 ft designs winning races is a good indication of the value and merits of Formula racing .



What was left out is P rated av times rate the 6/0 slower -

not sure what that means either , it only demonstrates that it really depends on who is on the boat and their current practice time and skill level on it is being averaged out slower on the 6/0 --. Rated handicap type racing is just that ,-a fun way to average times of skippers on particular types and classes of a diverse group of boat designs within that club

. It is appropriate for small club fun buoys racing in that context . It is just perfect for those involved in it .

A H-20 W CHUTE won the 100 mile RTI RACE finishing ahead of a number of very well sailed I-20S AND 6/0S , that also seems to demonstrate the value of Formula racing ,-and how equal all these 20 ft designs seem to be . Other further advantages of Formula racing are combined with continued improvements to each in speed and safety along with the tremendous knowledge gained by the development of these ideas and concepts applied .

Each boat becomes continually improved and better through direct competition ,-This is why we see excellent refined and improved designs like the N-Formula 18 and H-Tiger becomming popular modified by the individual sailor to an extent to their preferences ,--again a key element of distance racing ,--boat prep for it in races like the Worrell and in 03 the Tybee Formula 500 .



- ,-believe it would help any catsailor in a very positive way to experience this type of distance race before attempting to influence regulation of it ,-also experience a large Hobie mega type event ,--campaign a boat in a large active o d fleet ,and work up through the ranks . -Experience a developmental class and talk to those involved in A Class,--C-Class and 18 sq development where creative ideas ,concepts and improvements are applied . Along with great class racing this has always been the main attraction to catamaran sailing ,-better sailing craft at higher speeds , and always will be .



It is not about average times and setting artificial handicaps to govern them . This is not what attracts people to the sport , if the goal is to promote cat sailing , though does have its appropriate roll with small diverse groups .

Formula type racing ,-great developmental classes and a mix of healthy class racing as solid foundations to build the sport on as recognized by most of the cat sailing world is the right total formula for the sports better future .





Sail safe

have fun

Carl