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Eloquence #124888
11/26/07 08:31 AM
11/26/07 08:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
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Acat230 Offline OP
enthusiast
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This was written by Bob Webbon to the US A-Class fleet after the hugely successful world championship regatta in reference to ISAF’s recent decision to drop the multihull discipline for the 2012 Olympic Games (a discipline that has been in the Olympics for over 30 years with the US winning four silver medals in that history). US SAILING instructed its voting representatives to vote against the multihull. Bob was the regatta co-chairman for the world championship regatta.



It's all about diversity! It's all about being ugh, American!

I hope everyone is having a nice laid back Thanksgiving. All of you were just outstanding at the Worlds. Yes, I was wired; but so many of you helped to keep things rolling along - it really turned into a great high for me and Carol and all of those organizers who put in so much work. It would be great to leave it at that - a great battle at the top between several wonderfully talented sailors and those of us in the cheap seats having an opportunity to watch. But, unfortunately it was more. It was a reality check on just who we are and why we do what we do.

I've thought a lot about the ISAF and US Sailing's vote at the “meeting” and like you my feelings have run the gamut. But I've finally come to these conclusions.

If you look at us we love sailing, not just multihull sailing. Look at how many of us have experience in all disciplines of sailing, not just multihulls. It's actually ironic that those who have worked so diligently against multihull sailing in the US really have so little experience in all disciplines of sailing. We are the sailors who are most diverse. We can as easily flop onto a large keelboat, sport boat, fast dinghy, or sailboard, while those who don't want to understand us haven't a clue how to sail a fast multihull. Multihull sailors quickly embrace what is new and challenging without prejudice. But what's even more impressive, we can slow down and still play the game while the rest are just lost when they try to follow us. There are just very few Howards (reference to Howard Hamlin) out there. I know all this sounds a little esoteric but I think it's pretty obvious what camp is stuck in the mud.

Of course like all of you I've felt we should actively fight back. I've felt we should withdraw at times. I've wondered about our ability to change what has become an arcane system. But, I now feel there is really an obvious direction.

Those who oppose multihulls being showcased in one of the planet’s most celebrated venues are actually laying the groundwork to their own demise. When I describe what's happened to pure novices, to the man and woman, they all feel watching boats doing 5 to 6 knots versus watching boats doing 20 knots is a no brainier. The common sensibilities of the real viewers will win in the end. The groundwork that is being set is really doomed. Slow boats are just boring to the masses.

So this is my personal response. I will continue to bring the joy of sailing to as many of those folks who seem interested. It doesn't matter whether our Sea Scouts are on rotomolded Picos or my contemporaries are contemplating that beautiful A-Cat. My advantage is that I'm not confined by a constrained attitude that restricts my ability to really enjoy all of the sport, not just a regimented segment. It seems pretty obvious to me that as we move further into the future and composites become more and more available, foiling, flying and basically hauling butt will become more and more the norm. Those who insist on living in the past risk just that, the past. I predict soon those who live in the past might come back to the well again and ask us to please bring your wonderful sport back. Remember, that's how it all started, they asked us.

I strongly support those who must fight the fight. But even more importantly I'll do more by always supporting the diversity of our sport. It's just frankly hard to believe that a separatist, segregationist stance would be supported in the United States of America! I'm just glad my class and my friends detest this approach and find all the arguments supporting this truly outdated stance absurd.

Bob

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Re: Eloquence [Re: Acat230] #124889
11/26/07 09:04 AM
11/26/07 09:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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There is excellent rapport between the A's and F16's at GYC. It couldn't hurt to expand that relationship, Nationally, in the new year.

Re: Eloquence [Re: Acat230] #124890
11/26/07 10:07 AM
11/26/07 10:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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Beautifully said.

My question, what is the specific involvement of US Sailing to the IOC and the ISAF, and was it really thier position and lobbying to exclude the multihulls? I havent read that USS was involved in this, so now Im confused on how it all works.

I guess im really asking are they all in bed together, or can we lobby US Sailing to help our plight?

where does the ISAF get thier funding from?


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Eloquence [Re: dave mosley] #124891
11/26/07 10:27 AM
11/26/07 10:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
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stuartoffer Offline
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The majority of ISAFs funding does come from the revenue gathered at the Olympic games, IOC, 65%+ i think is the figure often quoted.

And yes IMHO I would urge all cat sailors to lobby US sailing, and all MNAs, as we have done to the RYA and the Australians have done to YA to try and get their support to overturn the deciscion made at the recent ISAF meeting. The more MNAs that support this the more chance we have of regaining the postion of Multihull in the Olympics

Re: Eloquence [Re: Acat230] #124892
11/26/07 12:36 PM
11/26/07 12:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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I finally put together some thoughts on the matter at Team Seacats ... it's a bit more legible there.

Quote
I finally had a little time this weekend to jot down some thoughts regarding the latest Olympic Tornado mess. A blog made by one of the editors of Sail Magazine, where he speaks with some of our US Sailing officials, inspired me to respond. The arguments they present are many of the same arguments heard before and show a very narrow vision and shortsightedness of their position. Read Kimball Livingston’s blog HERE.


For those who aren’t up to speed on the matter, the US Sailing submission to the ISAF for the 20012 Olympics did not originally include a multihull although the Tornado catamaran has been in the Olympics since 1976. Multihull sailors mounted a huge campaign and the submission was withdrawn and resubmitted that included two multihull events (one men and one womens). A little over a week ago, the ISAF met with the delegates from around the world to vote on the events for 2012. The US delegates choose to ignore the submission made by US Sailing and not one single US vote was cast in favor of the multihull. Combined with some other strategies from other countries, the Tornado lost by one vote and will not be included in the 2012 Olympics. Our head cheeses in charge have repeated several times that they don’t feel that the US has solid medal potential in multihulls - and even if this is a wise way to choose events, it’s a load of crap.


This position to vote for events in which the US has medal potential absolutely baffles me. Not only does it sound like a bad way to build our sport, but the claim that the US has little medal chance in multihulls is garbage. Simply look at the results! The USA has won medals in the Olympic Tornado four times since it was first included in the Olympics in 1976 (8 events). This matches the 470 men, matches the Star, and is two MORE than the Finn! Where are these guys looking that they don’t see the US medal potential in the Tornado?


So perhaps they’re saying they don’t see much potential after Johnny and Charlie retire after the next Olympics in Quindingo? If so, they’re not looking. The championship regatta recently held for the Tornado in California to determine who defends the US spot was nearly won by, “gasp”, someone other than Johnny and Charlie (Robbie Daniels and Hunter Stunzi). J&C pulled out a last day miracle to win. Maybe it’s the lack of a huge youth program that they are using to gauge potential? If so, they’re not looking – and I’m beginning to think they don’t look on purpose. Multihulls (largely on our own but within US Sailing) have built a terrific youth program created and managed by only a few very inspirational people. Olympic-berth runner-up, Hunti Stunzi, is a product of this program and there are many more very talented youths working their way up the program now. I know this because I manage the US Sailing Multihull Championship where we have held open a youth position and have seen them race against some of the best in the country in the Championship. I also race against them on the water from time to time. While I may not be a world champion, I’m not a slouch and I can see these young guys and gals get stronger every time I see them on the course.


Even if our elected volunteers were looking at the situation fairly, determining the best medal potential is a bad way of choosing events. We don’t subscribe to our national and international sailing organizations hoping that our delegates can maneuver inside the system to win each of our respective countries more medals. Instead, we subscribe to these organizations so they will manage our sport. A big reason that we lost an Olympic event for 2012 is because sailing, as presented in the Olympics, has been BORING. It’s difficult to cover on TV and hard for spectators to watch. The Olympic organization has told us this. What really bothers me the most about this ordeal is that instead of reaching out to this challenge and dealing with it directly, our sailing leaders continue to think selfishly inside a confined box and ignore the bigger picture. They should be focused on making our sport show the fresh, new, and exciting things that are happening around the world within sailing. Eliminating one of the fastest sailing platforms in lieu of a handful of traditional mono-hull dingies pays no heed to the reason we have to eliminate an event to begin with. Hell, if snowboarding gets a Winter Olympic spot (at which it immediately became a stunning success) the ISAF should be asking itself why the foiling Moth hasn’t been a consideration for one of the sailing slots right next to the multihull!

[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
Re: Eloquence [Re: dave mosley] #124893
11/26/07 12:38 PM
11/26/07 12:38 PM

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Dave, US Sailing is directly represented on the ISAF Council that made the decision. Whether they lobbied other nations I don't know, but the US Sailing delegates did have an explicit voting strategy to favor the keelboat over a multihull in the event that one of those had to be dropped.

I'm not sure about ISAF funding, but US Sailing get their Olympic program funding from three places, none of which is member dues - donations, sponsorships and the USOC. The latter is dependent on actual medal results.

Re: Eloquence [Re: ] #124894
11/26/07 01:05 PM
11/26/07 01:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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US Sailing get their Olympic program funding from three places, none of which is member dues - donations, sponsorships and the USOC. The latter is dependent on actual medal results.

So, if you were going to give your money to the sport of catamaran racing...

Would you donate to the sport at the elite level... eg Olympic sailing.

or

Would you donate to the sport at the grass roots level... say a junior catamaan program at your yacht club?

When I win the lottery... both would get funding... But for now the key question is .. what priority should we focus on to get the most bang for the buck?

I can think of great arguments for both and so its not an easy question to answer.

Obviously, US Olympic Sailing. said... catamrans will not fund olympic sailing as readily as the keel boaters. PLUS their assesment of the talent pool in Tornado's / all other cat classes led to their decision.

So leaving aside the talent pool issue.... What is your sense of what our funding priorities ought to be?


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Eloquence [Re: Jake] #124895
11/26/07 01:12 PM
11/26/07 01:12 PM

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Quote
... Our head cheeses in charge have repeated several times that they don’t feel that the US has solid medal potential in multihulls - and even if this is a wise way to choose events, it’s a load of crap.

This position to vote for events in which the US has medal potential absolutely baffles me. Not only does it sound like a bad way to build our sport, but the claim that the US has little medal chance in multihulls is garbage. Simply look at the results! The USA has won medals in the Olympic Tornado four times since it was first included in the Olympics in 1976 (8 events). This matches the 470 men, matches the Star, and is two MORE than the Finn! Where are these guys looking that they don’t see the US medal potential in the Tornado?
...


Jake, the reason that voting for events in which the US has medal potential is baffling to us is because it has nothing to do with the inherent competitive position of US multihull sailors relative to keelboat sailors. Looking at the past performance of US Multihull sailors may seem perfectly sensible to us, but is has little to do with how the strategy was actually formed. Rather, it is basically a financial calculation -

I've mentioned this before, but in case anyone has missed it... funding for the Olympic team comes from donations, sponsorships and the USOC. None of it comes from member dues. USOC funding is based on actual medal results. The better funded the team is, the better prepared they will be to compete in the Games and more likely they are to win medals and therefore the better funded the team will be and... At least so the thinking goes.

But here's the twist: US Sailing believe they can gain more donations from the general sailing community for a team that includes a keelboat than one that includes a multihull. More donations means a better funded team means more medals means more funding means more medals...

Yes, it is absurd and unjust and almost completely unspoken, but I believe it is that simple.

Re: Eloquence [Re: Mark Schneider] #124896
11/26/07 01:32 PM
11/26/07 01:32 PM

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Probably depends on whether we've heard the last word on the Olympic situation. I think my preference would be to support junior sailing. Elite competition is going to keep happening even if it's not in the Tornado. I think creating some new elite events that may attract more sponsorship dollars might be worth considering. I think we are only just beginning to see the potential of technology to create some really valuable media content around high performance sailing.

Re: Eloquence [Re: ] #124897
11/26/07 02:58 PM
11/26/07 02:58 PM
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Like most of us here, I don't sail a keelboat (ever) and rarely a dinghy. I think it's a stretch to consider keelboats remotely "athletic" (other than maybe for a grinder). It's always amazed me that they can be considered a "sport."

Anyway, I totally agree with Jake, the Moth (or something like it) should be in, looks very athletic, not to mention exciting for viewers.

Sadly, I agree that MarkMT is probably also right on, they need to generate funds, which saves the keelboat.

So, if we accept that keelboats will never die in the Olympics (and accepting that certainty may save us all a lot of hair in the long run), we really only had 8 positions in which to squeeze at least one multihull event. Still unclear on how that wasn't possible...

Mike

Re: Eloquence [Re: brucat] #124898
11/26/07 04:15 PM
11/26/07 04:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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I'm confused;

If boats are selected that are exciting and generate interest, the funding/sponsorship dries up? Do I understand this correctly? How exactly does that work?


Jake Kohl
Re: Eloquence [Re: Jake] #124899
11/26/07 04:35 PM
11/26/07 04:35 PM
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brucat Offline
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I have no idea personally, but it sounds like it's easier to get money out of keelboat sailors (they perceive that they have a vested interest) than the general public who just wants to see something exciting on TV.

Sounds short-sighted to me too.

Mike

Re: Eloquence [Re: brucat] #124900
11/26/07 07:21 PM
11/26/07 07:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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The advertisers must be asking for the keel boats! But that doesn't seem logical.

Surely some advertisers were asking for the moth!

Re: Eloquence [Re: Jake] #124901
11/26/07 08:09 PM
11/26/07 08:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Jake
I think its and apples and oranges .

I think the IOC will market the olympics on their own... they want fast and visually exciting boats for their TV advertisors. The advertising on your boat is your national flag at the olympics. The events leading to the olympics tend to be catagory C in cats... Not sure about stars or lasers.

However, the MNA... is trying to raise money for supporting the sailors on Olympic campaigns. The fund raiser has to tap the deep pockets from members of the yacht clubs... The pitch is... we fund ONLY world class sailors... Your money will push the sailor who is just on the verge... into medal contention. Its not, about Fast and Visually exciting. So, raising money, is an appeal to well off individuals to support Olympic caliber sailors. It's a lot easier to make this pitch to individuals with a shared interest... eg one lead mine sailor to another monohull sailor.

One other factor that may have unwittingly hurt our cause over the years is the use of Catagory C events for catamaran racing. Are the major US Star, or Laser, regattas, catagory C events (allow advertising/sponsor logos on the sails)? I don't believe so. The Tornado events all were catagory C to allow the pro's to display their sponsor logos. However, very few regattas in the USA are Catagory C events. Advertising is a big No NO to many yacht club racing members. I have often wondered if we suffer from our saying OK to catagory C type advertising on our sails and running these types of regattas?


Perhaps, the donors say... Hell... that catamaran sailor is out raising money selling advertising...all that crap on his sail... good for him... I will donate to the corinthian sailor trying for the olympics with plain white sails!


Last edited by Mark Schneider; 11/26/07 08:13 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Eloquence [Re: Mark Schneider] #124902
11/26/07 08:16 PM
11/26/07 08:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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IS there anything faster and more exciting than the newest configuration of the T? I say not. Multi's have always been at a promotional disadvantage in the Olympics because those in charge have not "prioritized" them. Olde Guarde rules.


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