Let's see where this one goes...

We all know about sportboats, right? The high-performance over-sized dinghies with keels that can generate some decent speed, as typified by the likes of the Melges 24 and others.

Well, there is a new class of sportsboats in a smaller size, namely around 20'. These would be the Viper 640, Ultimate 20, Rocket 22, etc. Add to this a newcomer that's generating buzz - the Melges 20. Now, just when I thought hi-po cats were getting pricey, the Melges 20 is projected to go for around $40k. As that's a pre-production estimate, $42-$45k or more may be more like it. If I understand it right, the other boats are cheaper but nothing can be had new for under the upper $20's.

So, on another well-known sailing site, on the SportBoat forum, somebody had the gall to ask whether the appeal of the 20' sportboats would be limited, given that an all-up Hobie Tiger could be had for under $20k and would most likely out-perform the 20' Sportsboat. Well, that place ain't exactly multi-friendly, and hilarity ensued. Here's the thread - Catamaran VS. 20Ft Sportboat

So, I'm asking a similar question here just for fun, and honestly to hear what folks say. Is there anything about the 20' sportsboats that would have you think twice about your cat addiction? For example, would you pass on a new Nacra-20 for a Melges-20, why or why not?

As for me - I couldn't justify spending that kind of scratch on a day-sailer. For that kind of money to pass the family test, there needs to be something more to it. Especially considering that a new Melges-20 is more than I spent on my Corsair F-27. But the real thing is that a new Nacra-20 is far less money, and does everything the Melges can do, plus some the Melges can't even think of. Cool looking boat, though...

Anyway, those are my thoughts, what are yours?

There's an Ultimate 20 in the yard at our club. I'll go take another look at it, but nothing about it caught my eye... except the Gucci cover. It looked sexier than the 40 or 50 Cal 20s in the yard, but still looks like a monohull to me. I wouldn't ever turn down a ride, but can't imagine leaving the F18 class for something that much slower.

I've been on RC for both Melges 24's (US Nationals) and Ultimate 20's.

The U-20's are nice boats. They are essentially a 3-person dinghy with a huge assym. spinnaker. You can't buy a new one (yet) since the molds were destroyed in a fire a couple of years ago. Reportedly, a new builder is gearing up to produce them again.

Ultimate Sailboats was founded by Jeff Canepa, one of the early Hobie 14 hotshots (Worlds & National Champion).

Melges 24's are 4 to 5 person dinghies. Expensive. The fleet is highly competitive - they have pro and Corinthian divisions. The hiking position (leaning over the loose lower lifeline) is uncomfortable at best.

Both these boats are athletic (roll tacking, hiking) and appeal to a younger (20's & 30's) crowd. Like all dinghies, they are extremely tactical and boatspeed differences are minimal.

Most monohull people say they sail dry and don't like to get wet like on a catamaran. I've raced across Lake MI 30+ times on boats like a 26' Ranger to a Great Lakes 70, and 24' - 28' trimarans. Trust me, monohulls can be almost as wet as a multihull. You just get wetter longer.
BTW crewing for others is a lot less expensive than owning your own boat. Most owners are always looking for crew, just go hang out at the marinas.

That said, I would look at a newer sport boat only if that is what they raced locally. Unless there is a OD class of these sport boats for racing it would be cheaper to pick up a lead mine to race PHRF for 5 - 15K.

I have as much fun on my Hobie 18 with wings at $2.5K as they do on their $40 - $60K sport boats.

Man there are some uptight people over there!

I agree with you completely, though also understand the point about stability/storage. I also suspect that someone who is going to drop $30-40k on a sportboat has probably been sailing quite a few years and probably not on a multihull - so it wouldn't be surprising if a multihull seems just too far from what they already know for them to see it as a candidate for their well-earned. However this is a perception thing - I think it does indicate a potential market for us to grow multi sailing, but in many cases we need to get them earlier.

Another new sportboat of this type is the Laser SB3 http://www.teamvanguard.com/2007/Boats/SB3/default.htm
My buddy Anthony sailed it recently and there is a great review and pictures on www.anthonyandcy.com
I've sailed it a couple months ago, it's a lot of fun downwind with the asym but upwind it is slow and not much fun. Best part is hiking is illegal in the class, you have to sit facing inboard!
These boats are in a position to take many Melges (20 and 24) customers.

I've done a fair amount of racing on the U20. They are great boats and probably one of the few sportboats next to the M24 that I would consider buying. As far as value goes sportboats don't come close to cats. The new Melges 20 design looks good and I can't wait to see one in person.

I think you cannot compare ANY lead keel ballasted boat to a multi. The speed and sailing characteristics are just too different. A better comparison would be with non-ballasted skiffs or scows- Melges 17, Vector, 49er, E-scow (assym now class legal). Sportboats are still keelboats- ie you can/t turn one over. And that is always a big consideration for the buyer whether they want to admit or not. I have sailed on Olson 30's and Hotfoot 20's in SF Bay. A wild ride to be sure, but still absolutely no comparison the the few races I crewed on a H20 in the bay. Too bad we did not have a spinn.

Uh, no. If I want to stay dry or cruise I would buy a larger multi or some other keel boat.

As one of the SB guys pointed out, there may be a commonality in sharing facilities. In general, yacht clubs need member$.

Gang:

Rocket 22 has a VERY neat system if you have ever raced monoslugs. There are NO winches!!!!! All controls go to a center mounted pod with just cleats. Lines run under the **** of the boat!!! Can be adjusted easy from other side, AND you don't have to have a man down low to adjust jib.
http://www.rocketboats.com/pdf/Rocket22_2007-08.pdf

Neat,

Doug

At Scott's Flat there was an A-cat that hit and punched a hole in an Ultimate 20. Cosmetic damage to the A cat, a couple thousand dollars worth of damage to the Ultimate 20. How fragile can a boat be that it can't take a hit from a potato chip?

Life is just too short to sail a monohull.

Agreed, but...in the sportboat genre, my choice is the Martin 243, pretty cool boat, check the photos at the bottom
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/4854

Look at a T-Boned A-Cat and assess that damage. Difference is most A-Cats can be repaired on the spot with skilled hands. And most of the A-Catter's that I have met have done just that, myself included.

Holy hell thats a big kite!

That kite is not going to exceed windspeed.

The U20 has its roots in cat sailing. The well known 1970's H14/H16 champ Jeff Canepa started USI here in Santa Cruz 1994??. He can be seen on the Hobie Video Sharing the wind.

My glass repair guy used to be the USI plant manager before they moved the molds to Canada in 2005. Another guy that used to build the U20 now races H16's and is the current Div 3 Bravo Champ.:)

The U20 is a great boat, and I hear that they are close to getting the class approved for the Olympics. I've sailed one alot, and it's a fun boat, but it's not a cat!

They're a bit defensive over there at SA. Kinda cracks me up.

From experience with N-20s and A-Cats joining a club, I believe the storage space argument is a wash versus a 20' sportboat. Again, we're talking 20' boat to 20' boat, and in the end both trailerable widths are 8.5'.

I think also that at 20', these may be considered for people without extensive sailing experience (as well as for those with experience looking to downsize). But the price tag ups the ante a bit.

So, if in an area with one of these classes established, would you dump your cat and get one, or would you take the initiative and try to establish a cat group. Assuming people have some money for new boats - a fleet of new N-20s or a fleet of new M-20s?

What would there be about the M-20 sailing experience to warrant twice the price of a 20' cat? Could you justify spending the scratch just to race in a OD, given also that the fleet is not established yet?