I have recently relocated to Florida. I would like to be able to just rub it in to all you Northern guys out there about the greatly extended sailing season, because normally at this time of year I would be carefully watching the weather reports to get in that last sail before the water turned hard.

The rub is that being an active racer as well as a recreational sailor, I found that my current boat will not work racing here (Just 1 more increase in my cost of living). As they have about equal distance and bouy racing with the complete gambit of boat types from waves to I20s etc, the racing is typically portsmouth. I can race my H16 to the numbers, but becuase of the vast difference in the numbers between the "top dog" boats and my toy boat, the outcome of the race is too dependant on the conditions.

I digress. This post is not to bitch about handicap racing, but my goal in racing is to race as close to head-head with the best sailors I can. As most of the big dogs are on I20s etc that would be the boat I would like to sail. The issue with this is that I am light, (I met my wife sailing at a nationals, and I wish to continue sailing with her) and am not willing to add a gazillion pounds of dead weight to my boat. Its not safe, and more importantly its not moveable and representative to true crew weight.

Most of the posters asking about which boat they should purchase, end up with a list boats promoted by their owners.
This is OK, but I am not a novice, and with the exception of some of the European models, I have sailed on most of the boats out there already. I've been searching the net for info and rules on the various boats, but am having difficulty completing the table to compare the readily available models.

Looking for:
1) Handicap number as close as possible to I20 or equal for close to head-head racing
2) Designed for spin (needed for this Florida light air)
3) Has class rules that allow for the lowest minumum crew weight
4) Has a strong enough presence that there would be races in the US where it could be raced 1 design

I have been looking closely at the Hobie Tiger, as it loosely fits most of these requirements, but if there was something else out there that did not weigh quite so much, I would gladly look at it.

Thanks in a dvance for any input you may have.

Needing to go faster

Matt

Matt,

The Javelin 2/F-18HT meets all four of the criteria that you listed.

1-TheJav2 handicaps are very close to the I-20's. They essential race boat for boat (very little handicap difference). These ratings are backe dup by actual performance observations and history.
2-The Jav 2 was designed as a spin boat.
3-The class rules, like those of the International Tornado and A-Class, allow any crew weight.
4-The class is growing very quickly (USA-70 was just ordered).

If you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at williamoliver@aol.com

W.F. Oliver
F-18HT USA-3

Matt,
Welcome to Florida! Which coast?
If you are on the West Coast, come race with us at Gulfport Yacht Club.
As to boat opinion, from someone who recently make a boat change, you may want to consider a Taipan 4.9. Its configured as you want and does well against boats of all sizes and is really easy to handle/set-up.
I don't have one for sale and am NOT a dealer.
Ask around your new area.

I just attended the Taipan National Championships in Gulfport, Florida. (We had a fleet of A-class cats).
The Taipans are pretty light, were all sailed double-handed as sloops, a good fraction of women as crews, and they all seemed to have a good time. And...a woman skipper is going free to the Worlds in OZ. (Jennifer finished second but the winner can't go). (See Rick's report). They are smaller, lighter, have chutes too and aren't as hi tech as 18HTs.

Two questions: Where in FL are you, and how light do you sail?
The T4.9 works great for my wife and I (280-ish). There are a good number in Florida (5 in Pinellas County alone), and all are actively raced. If your crew weight is 315 or less, you should consider a T4.9 with a 17 sq. meter chute. They are similar in speed to the Hobie Tiger, but weigh 170 lbs less, and the sheet loads on the chute are a LOT lighter. At the first US T4.9 Nat's, 3 of the top 4 teams were male/female...something few bigger boats can claim.

That said, I'll respond to each of your criteria:
1) Handicap number - Not quite as low as the I20, but close to the Tigers, and dropping steadily.
2) Designed for spin - The boat was designed for a spinaker.
3) Has class rules that allow for the lowest minumum crew weight - Not only is there no minimum, but the actual competetive weight is lower (270-320), much closer to a H16 than ANY of the options.
4) Has a strong enough presence that there would be races in the US where it could be raced 1 design - There will be several races during the upcoming year in which that will be the case. The First Annual T4.9 U.S. Nat's had 8 boats, and there was only 2 months notice!
Please feel free to let me know if you have any more questions. If you would like to sail/race my boat at one of our club races, come on over. You and your wife are welcome to take it out any time.
Thanks,
Michael Coffman
T4.9 #32

Hi Mat,

What about the Nacra F18 ? see the link below,
It's a perfect boat for a light crew.
I do not know if it is a class in the US already, but they a dominating in Europe at the moment.
web page

Regards,

Always keep in mind that the lighter and easier the boat is to setup, the more you will sail it.

By today's standards, the H16 is not much more complex to setup than a Wave. The Tiger and other boats are much more complex and take a lot more muscle to set them up. This will seem a lot more important, if you don't go sailing because the boat is too much trouble to rig.

Consider the Taipan 4.9, BIM 16 and Marstrom M18 (the 18HT is right on the edge in this area). Without the spin they are easy to rig for a casual sail and they can be sailed, raced and righted by 1 or 2 people.

I have nothing more to add to this thread except that also the Stealth F16 should be listed in the list containing the Taipan 4.9 and bim 16/Javelin 16.

Wouter

Hello Matt

Looking for:
1) Handicap number as close as possible to I20 or equal for close to head-head racing

Try a Tornado or F18HT or Nacra 6.0 with chute! These boats all rate about the same in Portsmouth.

The F18 Tiger or Nacra and the F16HP's will be slower.

2) Designed for spin (needed for this Florida light air)
Any boat that people are suggesting.
The Tornado class has invented lots of snuffer options so that almost any boat can be fitted with a chute.

3) Has class rules that allow for the lowest minumum crew weight
Tornado and F18HT do not specifiy a minimum weight. However.... I don't think that you want to sail these boats below 300 lbs. 340 is probably optimal.

4) Has a strong enough presence that there would be races in the US where it could be raced 1 design

The Tornado's have approx 5 regattas in the US a year with 10 or more boats. The 18HT's are developing a class schedule of one event a month and will have charter's available for newbies.. The I20's do not seem to be that intererested in buoy's racing and generated a decent class at three events Tradewinds, Spring fever and Catfight.

IMHO... The critical factor is how much the chute will load up... If you wife is driving... its not a big deal... BUT... if she is crew... then the muscle factor becomes a major issue. Her opinion is probably the most important factor.

The Tornado is a spectacular boat on the water and a pain in the butt on the beach. The spin is 25 sq meters and is a handful in a breeze. Having said that.... Casey Scace manages the boat with no problems. She also told me that the F18 Tiger chute seemed about the same to her as the Tornado chute.

Take Care
Mark Schneider Tornado and Dart 18

Matt, just noticed looking through the replies to your question that only one Florida sailor responded... Many of the generalizations are local experience. Like I20's don't like bouy racing. In Ohio/Michigan they almost exclusively bouy race except for a few times a year. In Mark's area in the NE is statement is probably very accurate. I am not even suggesting you go I20... just pointing out the regional issue. I suggest you look through local/regional race results in your area and determine for yourself what boats are most popular. Email or call the top finishers and ask them directly as they often lead groups in new boat directions.

Florida Multihull Sailor has a good list of the major FLA regattas http://www.floridamultihullsailor.com/

Thanks all for the input.

I will try to address all of these with 1 post.
First I am now located on the Space coast in Brevard county.

Although I like the idea of the 16HP for my wife, I would really like something that is truely closer to the bigger boats in numbers if I am going to bother to change platforms. When the wind speed goes up or down during the race out goes the skill factor in the corrected time. I can not afford to store or own too many boats, so whatever I choose needs to be my fun sailing boat with kids too. The Tornado, or 18HT appeal to me on the grounds that there is not that continual crew weight concern. The Tornado with the 10 foot beam kind of excludes it form the transportation set up thing even though I love the way they sail. I have not been on an 18HT yet, but have some concerns about the sheet loads and my wifes ability to be able to handle them. I really like the way the Tiger sails, its too bad it has to weigh almost 400 lbs.

Its too bad life has to filled with so many compromises. In the short term I am going to keep looking and try to get on an HT, but if the conditions are right look out for me on my toy boat, 'cuase in a big blow its hard to beat the simplicity and ease of handling my H16

Matt

Once more into the breach!!! (A Literary Reference)
Mr. T. Bohan is sailing a JAV2 18HT with chute in Florida with his young son Tom. Tom's voice hasn't changed yet (Sorry Tom- you can slug me in the shoulder next time you see me) but he hasn't been scared off yet. (Good for you lil buddy)...And these boats are light but do not appear to be delicate. There is another 18HT at the Rudder club in Jacksonville, but it sits under a tree while we are out sailing on weekends (What the hey is that all about?).

Matt,
Whichever boat you're on, the more catsailors in FL, the better for the sport!
I just wanted to mention something - if the Tiger's performance is satisfactory to you, the Taipan (f16) really might suit you. You'll see far less difference between the performance ranges of the Tiger and Taipan than between the I20, 18ht, etc. and the Tiger.
Remember, when the Tiger was as new as the F16's are now, its Portsmouth # was higher than the Taipan +chute is now. The Taipan(F16)'s number has dropped steadily...and people still bitch about the rating everywhere I've raced at.
Remember, the Texel rating is the same for Tigers and F16's. Give the Portsmouth #'s at least a year of active racing before you really give them a lot of weight, especially in classes without a lot of "rock stars." It takes us average sailors longer to figure the boats out.
Hope to meet you in Florida
Michael Coffman
T4.9#32