I think we discussed this on the main forum a year ago or something like that.
I don't understand how you have never pitchpoled or capsized more often. I do agree that the more experience you have, the less likely you are to capsize... but you still do it occassionally. I do wonder when the last time SMyth capsized on a beach cat. Surely he went over more than once or twice on all his worrell adventures (given, that is extreme cat sailing).
I would argue that you haven't been pushed in the past, had underpowered boats, sailed most of your career without a spin, or just never went out when it was blowign more than 10kn <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I do agree that there is an edge which you can run... between capsizing and going as fast as humanely possible. That edge is what it is all about sometimes (although a nice relaxing sail is certainly rewarding too). If people got hurt all the time when they capsize or pitchpole then we wouldn't sail... so, in the end, it is part of the game. Of course, having said that... a capsize is what scared my wife off of sailing these boats and it was hardly an extreme day. However, she would have found a reason not to sail on it regardless <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Didn't Smyth put his F40 over last year!? Bows down, sterns straight up?

yeah, forgot about that! an Extreme 40.

Disclose, disclose, disclose. Imagine how someone would feel is they bought a boat unaware of the pitch-pole/capsize phenomena!

These are very physical boats, people should be forewarned before they buy one. Further, in heavy air, handling the spin requires expert skill to avoid upset. Remember, Robbie and Matt didn't go over at all.

These things should be common knowledge.

respectfully Mary,
I agree many would have your thinking. However some, not all, kids do enjoy "stacking the boat". Going out is seriously heavy conditions and laughing about the wipe-outs with their mates later.. Each to his or her own..

Maybe more so in skiffs where its far more expected than a cat..
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

>...Matt didn't go over at all.<
I think I heard 4 times racing, and one after the finish line. (Same # as O & J)

Matt Lynch, sailing with Robbie Daniel on the Viper. If I understood Robbie correctly, they did not go over.

Oh I see, there are two Matt's (M.L & M.M.)

You seemed to have it under control, what was your favorite moment?

Everytime a post is made about warning people about the race-oriented nature of the F16's I think of this video clip from top gear :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovH1KpCPcPo tune in at 1 min.

Jeremy Clarkson reads a health and safety sticker (oen of many) as found on the new Dodge Viper :


"The top support behind the seat is NOT a roll bar. This is an open vehicle; drive carefully.

... NO !"


F16's are highly power-up racing sailboats with very sharp steering. You WILL flip it one time or another. That should be apparent from just looking at the boats; no need for any stickers educating the dumb.

Our line of reasoning is different. We made the F16 easy to right so capizing it is not considered a problem anymore, just part of the fun.

Wouter

Maybe we could come up with a "warning" sticker with a logo on it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
like warning: may cause death or disability! that would probably draw more kids into the sport than ANYTHING else. Seriously

hey guys,

you are so cool:

etc, etc...

Somebody who does not pitch pole is maybe just a better sailor than you. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I for my self would rather look to find a proper 20+kts setup than accepting that pitch poling is part of cat sailing and making macho slogans. Call this less exciting, that's fine with me. Maybe that's because we don't have caribbean water temperatures... or just because I like sailing and not swimming

Cheers,

Klaus

I don't think anyone particularly enjoys pitchpoling (although it is fun to talk about it afterwards). Just may be part of the learning process. I am not trying to sound macho at all.

I guess F16 is now the new NASCAR of cat racing.... people go to watch the crashes?

They sure don't watch NASCAR for the racing do they <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, it is not common knowledge to me. I have always been told that you are LESS likely to pitchpole with a spinnaker because a spinnaker LIFTS the bows. Was I naive to believe that? Or is it different with different boats? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Mary,

In my limited experience of "physical" boats I have found it safer downwind with a kite up.

Oh and I have never prescribed to the theory that the risk of pitchpoling makes the sailing more fun....

If pitchpoling is a major issue then its usually a design factor or a methodology problem (or both <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

I like your attitude. No blood, no foul. I'm curious if Matt and Gina kept the pointy end up. If they did then that's something to work towards because it shows that they sailed fast and stayed on their feet. We could get Cat Boats instead of Catamarans but where would the fun be? I've flipped and pitchpoled many times over the years driving my boat hard but never did dammage to myself, my crew, or the boat.

I stand corrected. There is nothing physical about catamarans and no expertise is required to run the spinnaker or anything else.

jeeze Pete, do we have to spell everything out to you? good thing you figured that out...
if you capsize you are clearly a hack and don't deserve the high performance boat you are sailing.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

only reason why I didn't go over during midwinters was because I was sailing 2-up and wasn't out there long enough to get tired, although I was still tired from the day before when I did go over. Couldn't tack the winds were so high and when I tried to do something different to get the boat around I went over. Both bows pointed straight in the air for a little bit- not sure how it happened but there I was, wondering how the hell I get out of that! Then I got the boat up (went back over twice it was so windy and all it required was a slight tug on the righting line). Then was pinched at the front beam, unable to get on the boat because the rudders were somehow pinned so it was steering downwind. If I hadn't been on the windward side of the front beam it would have gotten ugly. Had nothing left but still managed to get back on.
Say what you will about powerboaters but I was happy one came by and was willing to help while I struggled through it. I didn't need their help in the end but I was about 5 minutes from asking for it, but I am not sure what they could have done for me anyway.