By "best" halyard lock system, I mean the easiest to hook and unhook, both on land or on water.

The ones with a HALYARD!!

Hobie 14/16/Wave

Bob Curry

Thanks for saying it so well, Bob. I was going to point that out in my question and exclude those as candidates, but then what would be left to say?

All the higher-tech cats and bigger cats seem to have internal halyards. So of that internal-halyard group of cats, which has the best halyard lock?

And if none of them has a "best" halyard lock, why doesn't somebody invent something that works better -- that WILL work with an internal halyard?

Somebody mentioned the Supercat having its halyard lock at the bottom of the mast, inside the sail track. Is that correct?

i don't know about other boats, but i have to vote against the hook and ring system even though i own a p16. i have no problem getting it (the sail) up. down always seems to take a few tries. i have never tried to do it on the water, but i imagine it would be difficult dealing with the waves and wind.

The Super Cat 20 with halyard and bolt rope both running down the same slot. Mine was so hard, it is the main reason for me selling the boat. But once it was up, what a sweet ride!!!

David Mosley

My first 1980 FMS SC20 had the cable with the hook that inserted into the back of the main luff bolt rope track. It was great raising but sometimes needed needlenose pliers to pull it out. My second SC20 as well as my ARC22 are similar to what Mosley related with the luff bolt rope and halyard running in the same track. I hate that skyhook but when its up its up...

thom

I have modified the halyard system on the I-20 and now find it works great! I went to a smaller dia. line (3mm kevlar) and the aussie ring. Along with that, I have Mclubed the heck out of the luff rope and slot. Even in big wind and water, I have been able to drop the main, still, though I forget to rotate the mast enough for a clean drop...once I remebered to do that....I really sides down fast!

Lots of McLube...smaller dia line....aussie ring...seems to work

I like the one of my Tiger --> easy to lock/unlock and not one inch of mast lost. Great design.

http://www.geocities.com/kustzeilen/Hobie_headboard.html

i would have too say the taipan has the best halyard loking system i all ways unhook it on the water with ezz even in 25knots of wind,

regards kurt
taipan 4.9
aus 029

By your definition, the Hobie Wave. Last Fall I was able to drop the main on the water, by myself, in 25 kts of wind, while watching for lightning and raise it back. (There was a bad thunderstorm coming and the race committee was pulling everyone into a harbor)

The next easiest system I have tried is the Marstrom, as long as you remember "the knot goes in the back".

There is just something wrong with Taipan system. You just look silly pushing your sail up the mast with your hiking stick, cursing and throwing the hiking stick on the ground.

the taipan has a optinal halyard

Carl-
I don't know who you are referring to in your description of the "Taipan system" sail raising (It's more accurately the "A" cat system since it originated and is still predominate in that top level development class)? This certainly does NOT describe the normal procedure for raising the mainsail on the Taipan/"A" cats. After struggling with internal halyards on Nacras, Prindles and Hobies (of which I have to say I much prefer the external halyard with a good old stop on the wire!) I personally love not having to worry about the halyard disappearing up the mast, breaking (one of my old 18sq. buddies was notorious for breaking external halyards- both the wire, stops and "hooks"- with his 20:1 downhaul!!), coming untied, getting the knot "right", etc. With proper technique (and no mud dobber nests in the mast!) I have not had problems and have done on the water even single-handed (but if I HAD to raise/drop sails on the water with the boat upright- since you can always flip and drop/raise in an emergency- I would like a good old wire external halyard). The Taipans come with a small block at the mast head for a halyard but most owners find no need for it in my experience. The Auscat and Flyer "A" cats do NOT come with even this small block.
My old 1986 "A" cat has an interesting halyard system- It uses a ring that hangs down from the masthead that engages a "hook" that faces forward and is bolted to the head of the sail. I use a 1/16" Spectra line as a halyard that runs through a tiny block on the side of the mast- so it's an external halyard but extremely small.

Kirt

Sorry, I couldn't resist the humor. I was thinking about a relative novice who was offered a ride on a Auscat, all he had to do was rig it. I laughed so hard, I finally had to sit down.

I was thinking about adding the Auscat to an article I wrote once, called "Do you know your sail hooks at the top? You would not believe the number old cats I have seen where the new owners tried to hold the sail up by tying the halyard. I really liked the guy who removed the hook because he couldn't figure out what it was for, then after the cleat ripped off the mast decided the halyard doubled as the backstay

There is humor in all boats.

The Wave.. "I don't use a halyard, I just stand on my tip-toes to hook and unhook the sail

The Tornado:
"When I broke my halyard, other sailors stopped by to gave me condolences. I didn't understand. When I priced a replacement I understood immediately, 65 ft at $1.35/ft"


I guess I will have to start marking things as humor

Carl

The SC17 Halyard is the same as the SC20. I have had zero problems with it and find it much easier to raise and lock the main than any of my Hobies (16, 17, 18). I haven't had any of the bolt rope/halyard problems listed earlier.....just lucky I guess. As for releasing it, sometimes it takes a couple tries but it's no big deal, alot easier fiddling with something directly in front of you than trying to fiddle with something 30 ft. over your head that you can't really see. Seems like an excellent system.

Carl-
Sorry, I didn't recognize the humorous intent (if you had added "novice Taipan sailor" then I probably would have gotten it as I have been asked many times "Where's the halyard on this thing? You get the sail up HOW??" And then I get to demonstrate ).
Just get tired of the Taipans getting "flamed" and fully expected someone else (not you) to jump on your post as another reason to flame them-
Thanks for clarifying- I CAN relate to the Tornado humor since that's also true of the 18 square meter I used to have!! Of course we have all declined to mention the venerable Aquacat- I'm not even sure if the correct name for the line that raises the top prtion of the lateen rig is "halyard" or not-
Funniest thing I ever saw related to novices sailing was the newbie who hosted his sail UPSIDE down (now THAT"S a squaretop ) and then walked down the beach to ask me where this pole thingy (boom) goes .

Kirt

I would welcome an alternative to the hook and ring (Tornado type) system. The hook and ring is a real pain to try to drop in a hurry on the water. Twisting the mast while hauling the halyard while twisting the mast back while, darn, do it again, while holding on to a bucking boat while twisting and turning the mast....

I liked the convenience of the old knob-on-the-wire and that is still available for external halyards.

I don't think the factories are considering the safety of being able to drop the main in a hurry while on the water.

Isn't the advantage of the hook and ring type systems that they reduce by half the compression on the mast compared with halyard type systems...Dan

Dan, I was hoping somebody would bring this up. Apparently, if mast compression is a problem, it does not bother Bill Roberts, designer of the Supercats, since their halyards attach at the bottom of the mast. Maybe compression is not as much of an issue if the halyard comes down the aft side of the mast through the sail track, rather than down the front of the mast? I have no idea.

And I have been told that the problem with external halyards that attach at the top of the mast on the forward side (Hobie 14, 16, Wave) is that with the larger, more powerful sails, it puts too much strain on the sheave(s) at the top of the mast and on the cable that has to bend over those sheaves. Seems as though those are problems that could be easily overcome, as Hobiegary described in the thread about "reefing points."

One problem we used to have back in the 1970's with using the Hobie 16 system (but on the Sizzler catamaran) was that the swaged balls on the cable portion would not always hold under a lot of pressure, and the ball would slip on the cable.

Seems like the ideal would be to be able to use a hook and ring at the front of the top of the mast, with the hook facing down. And you could even have two rings, at different levels on the cable, so you could easily reef. BIG PROBLEM: How do you get the ring(s) through the hole and over the sheave to get it to the front? Hmmm. Guess I have to dream on this a while. Maybe a bigger fork-type cleat on the mast and use thin, non-stretch line instead of cable, and use a knot to hold it in the "cleat." ??? You could have as many knots as you needed at different levels, too, for reefing purposes. (Line probably would have to be replaced fairly often, since knots weaken a line at the knot point.)

But even if the problems could be solved for cleating on the front top of the mast, you still have that halyard coming down on the outside of the mast and creating, heaven forbid, windage.

I Currently own a Nacra 6.0 and I do not have any problems with the hook and ring system, before the Nacra I owned a dart with the same system.
I do not have problems not on the water or on the land.
The most important is that the cat is facing the wind at all times.
I have seen many sailors who cursed the ring and hook system but I usually got the problem solved for them in one go.
I do not want to brag but I think it is something you must have a feeling fore.