Was this info in the NOR? How many discards? and was there a medal race?
We are all different! and want different things from a Regatta. Last week MYC held the UK Tornado National Champs and one competitor, packed up, went home after the 2nd race because he was going slow, or was it a wind shift? we will never know.
As long as YOU know what you are letting yourself in for then who cares!!!!!

I learned from an old pro PRO the one word that should describe a race committee is invisible. That means nothing you do should effect the racers. Seven races in one day sounds like an ego trip by the PRO and a survival of the fittest endurance test.

What ever happened to the "Have A Hobie Day" philosophy?

Seven races in one day is (was) highly unusual. We were on the third day of the event with only two races completed. The weather predicted for the fourth day looked dismal.

PU was not on an ego trip - he was trying to get races in on the only day he thought he could.

He was highly efficient. There were no general recalls. There were individual recalls. He didn't even need to use the I flag with us, we were so well behaved at the starts.

The target race time was 45 minutes. He kept to a 1 hour cycle time (start of one race to the start of another). We were on the water for 7 1/2 hours (9:30 AM - 5 PM). Every race was a course 2, with the exception of the last which was a course 6 to finish us back at the beach.

The 5 races on the following day were a "gift" - totally unexpected. It's easy to have 20/20 hindsight and say, "Seven races was too many in one day." Would we have been saying that if we got no races in on Thursday? With only one light race on Friday? That would have made a grand total of 10 races in 5 days.

At the NACRA North Americans, I warned the competitors that I planned to run races with no lunch break the first day. I told them to bring water and snacks out with them. There was some bitching and moaning (especially when I did it to them on the second day) - but after I had 10 races in the bag, I lightened up and gave them a lunch break on the third day.

Of course, we pissed away the best wind of the day by doing that.

I was beaten to a pulp from the seven races, beaten enough that morale was diminished to the point that we went in after three gnarly capsizes on Thursday. The tragedy is that they took place prior to the end of the first race. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Wednesday had three capsizes as well. One of which I’m sure that that the hand of God was smiting me for some past trespass and I'm convinced there was no saving or prevention to be had.

I'm not a national level competitor. I didn't delude myself with any prospects or hopes of finishing in the top ten, twenty, or even thirty boats. With 55, (56?), boats on the line and the crowd that was there I would have been shooting for the mid 40's. I was in 48th at one point, and slipped into 50th at the end, which I’m completely comfortable with.

Unless there was going to be a NAC for the FXone, I will not be doing another NAC again. Maybe I’m not competitive enough, or just a pussy. I did H20 Nationals earlier this and wish I hadn’t. I now feel that way about 16 Nationals. You can argue that it is a test, a test to wean out the non hackers. I’m now sure that I’m a hack and not worthy. Had I known what the conditions on Thursday were going to be what they were, I would have not raced the last two races on Wednesday. I probably would have not bailed so early the next day. To each their own, but it’s not my cup ‘o’ tea.

1. Don't make excuses.
2. Recognize there's a problem.
3. Propose a solution.

Proposed Solution
4 races per day maximum
Add to NOR and SIs

Bob,

Good call. I have noticed since I returned to sailing Hobies that you are a voice of wisdom and calm. You were especially eloquent in your letter to USSA concerning mandatory membership.

We hope to make the 16 NAC again (last time was Biscayne Bay in ’74) and 4 races a day would be just right.

Hi Bob... Could you say more... eg target time.. 45 minutes, 60 minutes, 75 minutes?

The reason I ask is, given the size and competition of the NA Hobie 16 Fleet... How long of a race is needed to sort out the fleet based on skill and not luck?

The course geography will impact the PRO's ability to manage the competition.. (eg.. can't get to the lay line on one tack... max weather leg is 1 miles etc etc)... How does that impact the time and number of races in the pre planning stage?



Ding Ding... Managing everyone's expectations is critical for everyone to go away happy... If you know that 4 races are schedulued.. you can plan for it or choose to not attend.


Final question, Should the championhship schedule be set at less then the maxium number of races per day (4) times the number of days (4) or 16 races based on your proposal?
Lots of other classes seem to set the championship on 10 or 12 races for a perfect regatta.

45 to 60 minute races.

Personally I believe such regulations are better not being part of the class rules.

That is what we have SI for and honestly sometimes the RC has to make the least bad choice out of a set of bad options, we got to give them that freedom I believe.

Wouter

Wouter ... Why not in the class rules?

If you had a XXX championship and the SI's said... One race will count (because that is how the OA runs their weekend regatta)... ... Would the class be happy with this standard? ... or would they want the class standards spelled out for the host club. Heck...Classes reserve to set a wind speed min and max for events to manage the competition.(I remember a huge protest at F18 championship in Va). Why not the number of scheduled races per day. Max number allowed, Min number for championship, max number of events to count for the series.(indeed the tornado class rules do this)

As you look down a list of class champions...I would like to know that all met a certain standard to claim that title.

Seems to me you can't or shouldn't leave such a defining issue up to each OA.

In the end... the class ensures the integrity of it's traditions, history and quality by these decisions.

As always... if they are spelled out in writing... you don't have much standing to bitch later.

Because the model class rules for ISAF International classes exclude "event management" issues.

The proper way to deal with this is in a "Class Event Manual" - which is what the Hobie and many other classes use.

Class Rules cover the equipment and are part of the RRS.

Event Manual covers the requirements of major events and is not part of the RRS.

Thanks Matt

It would appear that the Tornado Class told ISAF to stuff it and have their international event requirements in their class rules appendix. (I assume being in the appendix does make it part of the RRS...)

http://www.tornado.org/uploads/documents...ppendix%20C.pdf

Basically
2 races per day, 10 to count for the championship with one throw. Lay day in the middle. My experience is that they want 1.5 hour races. I know for OCR's the schedule called for two or three tornado races (just like the lasers)

Could you point me to the Hobie event document.. I could not find it on the IHCA site.

The North American Event Manual is here.

Thanks Matt,

That's a hell of a resource, but it seems to leave all of these schedule issues up to the PRO and no need to publish the details before the event. Did I miss it? Does Hobie leave Worlds up to each national authority with reguard to championship standards from their national event manual?

You did not miss it, because it isn't there. The NA Hobie Class has has a tradition of "run as many as possible in a 5 day series" for as long as I can remember - certainly back to the provided boat days of the late 1980's.

The worlds is still in provided boats, and since they rotate after every race, the fatigue factor doesn't set in as much. The worlds has it's own "procedure manual" that's available upon request from the IHCA.

The most races I can remember after 5 days was 21 - that was the 2005 Hobie 17 NA's in Rehoboth.

I agree with Wouter (did I just say that???).

At the end of the day, we have to give the OA and especially the PRO some leverage to use their discretion. We are very careful who we choose to run these events, and no one gets to run a NAs without lots of experience, especially experience with our class.

Having said that, I would not be opposed to Bob's solution (4 per day), except that I would add a clause to allow one extra to make up or get ahead, to deal with Murphy. This would get the plan in writing, and everyone lives with it if the weather doesn't cooperate.

The majority of us racing in the Hobie classes don't want a planned lay day for the NAs. Nor do we want just two or three races per day, except maybe on the last day if we've gotten 4 in per day all week before that.

There's tons of other factors.

Mike

The problem is that we have given the PRO leverage and flexibility and it has been abused not just in Iowa but in RI as well. The "trust me" thing isn't going to work any more we need assurances and it needs to be in the NOR. I have confidence that this will happen.

I've already posted that I can live with a documented number of races per day in the NOR.

However, what happened in RI that could have been addressed by an NOR?

There was carnage on Day 1, but nothing that a limit on the number of races could have fixed.

As we learned in Tampa, a high wind limit cannot be easily determined by popular vote. On the low end of the wind, again, more issues of agreement (F18 event).

There have been several NAs where the conditions were such that 1/3 to 1/2 or more of the fleet was on the beach, yet races were continued to be started. Is this what you're trying to address? That would certainly take some creative writing, but is probably where one would have the most credibility with the "fair/unfair" concern.

"Fair/unfair" is a slippery slope. Deciding to run races or not can create feelings (justified or not, and 99.999% of the time, NOT justified) of favoritism. Like I said, lots of factors to be considered.

Mike

I don't think the question is fair or unfair. The question is fun or no fun. In RI we had six races on the last day in freezing rain. Three would have been fine. After three on that day it started to be no fun.