| Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability #159046 11/03/08 02:01 AM 11/03/08 02:01 AM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 337 Arizona AzCat OP
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Posts: 337 Arizona | I raced my 5.7 last weekend and found that I ciuld not point anywhere close to most of the fleet. ie miracle 20, Nacra 5.8. I understand that a boardless cat's cant point as high as cats w/ boards, but i'm talking about 15 degrees. If I tried to go even close to where they were going, I would be in a full luff. I just added a new jib but my dacron main is 21 years old. It seems to be pretty full, even when I downhaul to my max(3 to 1 purchase). They were all carrying mylar mains. Is this the problem with my pointing?
Also, My new jib has a leech tensioner and a foot tensioner, how is this used? I assume it's only used downwind.
Auscat MKV 444 A class NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: AzCat]
#159054 11/03/08 06:06 AM 11/03/08 06:06 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
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Posts: 1,203 uk | Sounds like you have jib slot issues. A full main will close the slot and so will a leech line in the jib. The new jib will have a harder leech anyhow [which is a good thing] but there should be no need for any tension in the leech or foot lines, these are generally used to prolong the life of a dieing sail. do you have leech telltails on the main - very important to get the main leech tension right which is vital to pointing.
Paul
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| | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: AzCat]
#159059 11/03/08 06:43 AM 11/03/08 06:43 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | even when I downhaul to my max(3 to 1 purchase). They were all carrying mylar mains. Is this the problem with my pointing?
How much wind. 3:1 is nowhere near enough purchases if its windy!
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: scooby_simon]
#159066 11/03/08 08:14 AM 11/03/08 08:14 AM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 976 France pepin
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Posts: 976 France | Scooby, this is an old school nacra 5.7 with dacron sails. Lots of downhaul won't curve the heavy ally mast like it does on our fancy tapered carbon masts. More downhaul is only going to stretch the old sail more and more, with minimum effect on the draft.
To flatten the sail on those keep the diamond tension low, rotate the mast and it will bend on the smaller axis when you pull the main *tight*. 3:1 downhaul purchase is sufficient. Now if the main is changed to something more solid and less stretchy you try to can bend the mast on its major axis with a downhaul, but the main needs to be reinforced first, the spreaders need to be swept back a bit (I don't think they are tunable on a 5.7), and the diamond tension needs to be tighter.
To answer the original question, assuming that the problem is due to the new flat jib and the baggy main narrowing the slot, you should move your jib sheet pulley back: it will tension the foot of the jib more, and the leech less, opening the slot between the main and jib.
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[Re: pepin]
#159078 11/03/08 09:02 AM 11/03/08 09:02 AM |
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 168 San Diego hokie
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Posts: 168 San Diego | Make sure your weight is forward, the Leeward bow needs to be be more than 1/2 way submerged. | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: hokie]
#159083 11/03/08 09:29 AM 11/03/08 09:29 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 890 Dunedin Causeway, FL David Parker
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Posts: 890 Dunedin Causeway, FL | Make sure your weight is forward, the Leeward bow needs to be be more than 1/2 way submerged. YES, YES, and YES again! I've been sailing boardless cats forever and this is the KEY to pointing high. Every puff that lifts the hull, gently point higher and step forward hard, driving the bows down. Your bows are your boards, not your skegs. If you consider your bows instead of your skegs you will realize a momentary burst of speed and 5 degrees of lift. As the puff/lift fades, be sure to foot off back to the old line, ease weight back again, but do NOT pinch. In fact, you can foot off just before the power fades and you'll scoot like a spit-out watermellon seed! You keep doing this "S" pattern up and forward, then foot and weight-back over and over. NEVER sail casually, always be vigilant of EVERY puff, however tiny, to make up height. You're lacking native lift but can make it up with smart boat handling. The board guys are lazy, they bought their height. You have to earn yours. I love walking over a lazy board boat. This will not work with angled back bows like a Dart and you'll pitch a Hobie 16 doing it. The more vertical the bows the better. On a SuperCat with bows 30 inches high the effect is dramatic! On my SuperCat 17 I had to add 24 inches to my tiller extension so I could trap far forward of the front beam going up wind solo. Look at the lee bow in my avatar on my Mystere 5.0XL. Bows DOWN. I just switched to a Nacra 5.0 and sure enough, it works GREAT on this boat, too. Light air or heavy, its the secret sauce! | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: pepin]
#159107 11/03/08 11:45 AM 11/03/08 11:45 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Scooby, this is an old school nacra 5.7 with dacron sails. Lots of downhaul won't curve the heavy ally mast like it does on our fancy tapered carbon masts. More downhaul is only going to stretch the old sail more and more, with minimum effect on the draft.
To flatten the sail on those keep the diamond tension low, rotate the mast and it will bend on the smaller axis when you pull the main *tight*. 3:1 downhaul purchase is sufficient. Now if the main is changed to something more solid and less stretchy you try to can bend the mast on its major axis with a downhaul, but the main needs to be reinforced first, the spreaders need to be swept back a bit (I don't think they are tunable on a 5.7), and the diamond tension needs to be tighter.
To answer the original question, assuming that the problem is due to the new flat jib and the baggy main narrowing the slot, you should move your jib sheet pulley back: it will tension the foot of the jib more, and the leech less, opening the slot between the main and jib. Must be a very soft sail; we were using 8:1's on Dacron Tornado mainsails!
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: David Parker]
#159192 11/03/08 04:56 PM 11/03/08 04:56 PM | andrewscott
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Unregistered | I just switched to a Nacra 5.0 and sure enough, it works GREAT on this boat, too. Light air or heavy, its the secret sauce! I think someone's been hitting the sauce... and it ain a secret! | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: scooby_simon]
#159223 11/03/08 08:08 PM 11/03/08 08:08 PM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 337 Arizona AzCat OP
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Posts: 337 Arizona | Wind was 7 to 12 mph. This cat dosnt ever wake up till after 12(mph). I will try to get some pics or video next time I am out. The main has a huge pocket, or at least it seems that way to me. I have looked up the mast and I think I am getting about 4-5" of bend when downhauled.
Auscat MKV 444 A class NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#159224 11/03/08 08:11 PM 11/03/08 08:11 PM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 337 Arizona AzCat OP
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Posts: 337 Arizona | I dont have leech tells, I will add them. It does seem that i have slot issues. Again maby a new mylar main is in order. I just dont want to do it for the wrong reasons, and if the boat still wont perform, why bother.
Auscat MKV 444 A class NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: pepin]
#159226 11/03/08 08:17 PM 11/03/08 08:17 PM |
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Posts: 337 Arizona | I dont have mast rotation , but could easily add this if it will solve the problem. Diamond tension is low, I can press the wires to the mast 12" above the adjusters. While racing I tried the jib sheeting both front and rear of the track. not much diff.
Auscat MKV 444 A class NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: AzCat]
#159228 11/03/08 08:20 PM 11/03/08 08:20 PM |
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 168 San Diego hokie
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Posts: 168 San Diego | and if the boat still wont perform, why bother. it won't be the boat's fault | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: AzCat]
#159231 11/03/08 08:24 PM 11/03/08 08:24 PM |
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 168 San Diego hokie
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Posts: 168 San Diego | what is your mast rake like? | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: David Parker]
#159232 11/03/08 08:27 PM 11/03/08 08:27 PM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 337 Arizona AzCat OP
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Posts: 337 Arizona | I do keep the weight forward, usually till the bow is is averaging about 4-5"out of the water, I will try more s turns as you describe. This boat really dosnt come alive till the wind is +12mph. after that it really wakes up but I am still not happy with the pointing. It's a very clean boat and I hate to take my chances with an upgrade to a 5.8, The lake that I sail on (Lake Pleasant Az) is very rocky and the winds are very flukey. Boardless is beautifill. one les thing to do when landing and the wind does a 90 and goes from 5 to 15mph. Thank all of you for your input.
Auscat MKV 444 A class NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: hokie]
#159254 11/03/08 10:29 PM 11/03/08 10:29 PM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 337 Arizona AzCat OP
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Posts: 337 Arizona | Mast is straight up, no rake. So how close to daggered boats should I be pointing? Not counting the "S" turns. I came in 4th in a fleet of 8 boats. This was my first race ever, I guess that's not to shabby. Portsmouth scoring. But the 5.8 and miracle were so far ahead of me and were pointing so high, it was sick.
Last edited by azcat; 11/03/08 10:36 PM.
Auscat MKV 444 A class NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA | | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: AzCat]
#159258 11/03/08 11:20 PM 11/03/08 11:20 PM |
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 757 japan erice
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Posts: 757 japan | The main has a huge pocket, or at least it seems that way to me.
do you have the foam filled and tapered nacra battens?
eric e 1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158 2009 weta tri - 294
| | | Re: Nacra 5.7 Pointing ability
[Re: erice]
#159262 11/04/08 12:07 AM 11/04/08 12:07 AM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 337 Arizona AzCat OP
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Posts: 337 Arizona | Yes, foam filled tapered battens. I replaced three of them with new ones, the others are original.They are tied into the pockets just tight enough to take the wrinkles out of the pockets.
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