Sailing Anarchy's Mr. Clean talks to Hobie Sr. Part 1 of 3.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=83137&view=findpost&p=2126234

That was fun, I didn't know that the origin of the 360 was right here.

Part one of our long-awaited Interview with Hobie Cats founder Hobie Alter

SA: First off, we really want to thank you for taking the time to talk with us. We know you haven't weighed in much on sailing in recent years, so this is a pretty big deal to a lot of our readers.

...

SA: So it was all about fun and getting everyone together. What did you have to watch out for?

HA: I had a friend, a great sailor but I can't remember who it was. He said, “do not let the good sailors take control of your class. They’ll ruin it.” So I had a couple of problems with guys that were really tight on the rules, and really weren't well-liked. I told them, “You know what, when you go up to get your trophy, you're going to have 5 people clap for you rather than a hundred. Is that really how you want it?”

Well.... here it is... from the man's mouth.
The origen of the old saw... "Oh you catamaran sailors just don't sail by the rules...": .... Not only true... but also by design!

turns out it ... Hobie Alter was pooh poohing the rules because "you won't be well liked" .... and the monohull world had it right.

So 20 years down the road... Hobie catamaran classes begin to reshape themselves and behave like the standard sailing classes, follow the rules and rejoin the mainstream.

On a board called sailing anarchy... HA could be your first hero. But here is the question... Was it worth it?

It has taken another 20 years to change opinions that catamaran sailors DO play by the rules. The life style sailors are gone and it's been a slow process to change opinions of the mainstream .... Hell... EVEN among the catamaran classes.... Some classes really don't want to share the race circle with Hobie cats.

Could the Hobie explosion have happened in partnership with the Yacht Club structure of the day rather then independent and fundamentally anarchist?

Yup. It started as two 360's (720) but eventually became just one.

I'd get dizzy with all the hitting I have been doing lately. BTW, A 360 on a Hobie 14 sucks butt.

Try doing two back to back!

It still was better than having to retire, which we had to do before Hobie made up his own rules. Who would have thought that it would ever become part of the "real" rules?

Hey Mark,

You DID read the whole interview, right?

Hobie said "You had to have good rules..." Believe it or not, the BEST PROs preach EXACTLY what Hobie was doing, at Advanced Seminars. You have to know what the sailors want, and run the regatta accordingly. There are rules in the RRS that allow this. It's sad if it's taken 20 years for this obvious concept to catch on...

I totally disagree with your notion that "the life style sailors are gone." When was the last time you attended a Hobie regatta, especially Madcatter or Rochester, or any of the Hobie Fun Days in RI?

Mainly because of the sucess of Hobie, we've been successful enough to do our own thing without needing yacht clubs. So, how would they possibly know whether we follow rules? Most mono sailors have never met any cat sailors. Things like putting a cat in the America's Cup, which we had nothing to do with, has probably hurt us (in their eyes) more than anything else.

One way that we hurt ourselves is that when we do try to get into yacht clubs, we don't want to pay to play. We've become too used to ridiculously cheap regattas, and not having to pre-register.

Yes, everything Hobie did was worth it.

Mike

Part 2 of 3 now available.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2009/hobie%20alter%20innerview%20part%202.htm

I do believe that Mr. Alter missed the question about the "Hobie Edict"...but I have really enjoyed so far hearing the roots and his opinion on the sport.

The Hobie 16 vs Prindle 16 catfight was pretty much over when I started racing with Hobie 16's as the clear survivor but obviously... the culture split occurred very early in beach cat history and to HA... the first Hobie edict was to dictate that each class go their own way.
So, instead of catamaran sailor... you were a hobie, or prindle sailor.


The two cultures were really different. It's interesting that the Prindle sailors seemed to march up the performance ladder while the Hobie 16 sailors only seemed to march up to the Hobie 18 and a lot of them never moved up at all.

The new Hobie 20 generated a lot of giggles among the performance oriented sailors with it's name... the Miracle 20.... ie it took a miracle to get the 16 and 18 sailors to move up to a performance boat and this boat appeared well after the peak of cat racing and long after HA's retirement. The cultures started to merge with 20 and then the F18's really forced the merge the culture issue.

These culture differences were remarkable and it's interesting to see that they were rooted in HA's view of the way things should work and one of his early decisions.

Yeah... we told you so. Everyone thinks he has kept up on current events, but he has been disconnected from the sailing side for many, many years. Funny he took that as the Hobie Edict of the early 70's, Mr. Clean doesn't know the difference either.

I don't quite get what you are saying here Mark...

Certainly Hobie sailors "marched up the performane ladder" with each and every larger cat we have built. Actually in larger numbers than Performance Cats / Narca / Prindle has ever had. A large number of H16 sailors moved up to 20's, 21SE's, Tigers... and still sail H16s at major events today. We just have enough depth that the 16 class remained intact.

Hi Matt,

Certainly, Hobie corp has created performance classes over the years but HA's comments about the core philosophy still resonate today. IMO I sense the underlying core culture of the hobie classes has been simple fast and fun (but certainly the prosail 21 sailors were a different breed) The core ethos was essentially HA's "simple fast and fun". Big numbers let people explore more technical boats but the core ethos was still simple is best.

I think the underlying culture of the Prindle and Nacra sailors was more performance/tweaky oriented right from the beginning. I think it was well said in another thread by Alex Thigpen who noted his own trek up the performance ladder. It makes sense that if you wanted to compete against the momentum of the hobie 16... you had to market.. XXX is a technically better boat. People sorted out what boat they wanted according to the two cultures almost right away it seems.

One current example would be the Hobie 16 sailors by and large have not jumped on putting spin kits on their 16's. (Not even considering the one design racing can of worms) Meanwhile many of the older prindle and nacra sailors have souped up their rides with a chute. Heck a guy named smiley had a smythe chute on his p16 almost 15 or 20 years ago on the Chesapeake.

It's a different mindset from the Prindle /Nacra sailor and entirely consistent with HA's personal interests... He was turned on by dirt bikes, then surfing, then sailing, then X and Y and Z. Building a "better" 16 foot boat after the Hobie 16 would never have been one of his goals.... he was moving on to the next thing that turned him on.

I just find it fascinating how dominant his personality has been in the class and never having met the man did not realize it.

You know the man, have I missed something?

Take another dominant personality in the techi world of cat sailing to compare HA with; Randy Smyth! Again I don't know him but I don't think of him as Hobie sailor and I do think his reputation is one of being one of the best technologically creative and innovative cat sailors/designers in the US and world. He was associated with Prindle early on and this matches the techi culture of the class.

Anyway.... it's a great interview and history is always fun to reexamine.

Suped up older prindle and nacras? I think I saw an old prindle behind a barn once.......

I really don't want to turn this into another long philosophical discussion - but Mark you really had some insight there. That's an interesting point.

DUH!!! Where the hell else would they be in Iowa???

Mike

He has his moments, rarely, but when he's on he's on.

Whether he was interested in new projects or not... he still would have left the H16 alone. He clearly says he wanted to make it affordable and not a arms race. That is where Prindle / Nacra lost its market share... they changed too much too often. Its not that Hobie forced this idea on the class... Hobie people prefered it this way... so it works.

Just thought I'd share a pic of Hobie and I from the 40th Anniversary Regatta last October in Dana Point. I was excited and humbled to finally meet and visit with one of surfing/sailing's true legends. Nice interview on SA.

John

Ummm I assume HA is on the right?