These are the final results:
http://www.tybee500.com/results/1/original/09_tybee_results.pdf

I still don't think we have found a good explanation why the F18s did so well.
I heard some people mention the light conditions but the F18 is not known for its light wind performance (not more than the N20 anyway).

Any ideas?

These are the final results:
http://www.tybee500.com/results/1/original/09_tybee_results.pdf

I still don't think we have found a good explanation why the F18s did so well.
I heard some people mention the light conditions but the F18 is not known for its light wind performance (not more than the N20 anyway).

Any ideas?

Isn't it a lot like running though? Sprinters don't necessarily do well at 400, even less so at longer distances. I'd guess the marathon is in a class by itself.

Interesting thread...
Having raced against most of the above mentioned in both acat worlds and tybee formats (although at the back of the pack and usually just seeing the acaters at the start and if they lapped me ), I have several thoughts:
1) all the above mentioned are awesome sailors, its like saying whose better, the beatles or the rolling stones. They are both great, but different.
2) In general the tybee is a younger mans race, the acat is a boat that you can stay with as you mature both intellectually and physically. The acaters by virtue of their longer careers will in general have longer resumes in which the earlier entries will include distance achievements, and no doubt todays tybee champs will likely evolve into an acat equivalent format as they mature.
3) That being said, the tybee is about endurance and maintenence of the "groove". Every second literally over 7 to 15 hours that you can't quickly refine and hold that boat at max efficiency, you will lose ground. I don't care if your hungry, thirsty, tired, gotta pee, got salt water or suntan lotion in your eye, your hands are cramped, you don't feel good, your nose itches, whatever, you gotta focus like a razor every minute, no break. Whoever can do that the best, the longest, is gonna win.

The acaters however will know more about finessing their one sail and everbalancing their very sensitive boat while maintaining the visual chess game of a quickly changing playing field, and will have very well honed mark rounding strategy and start strategy (and finishing strategy).

4) So one person can surely excel at both but maybe not at the same age or stage of their careers and/or have time to simultaneously hone both edges to stay at the top of both efforts, though there is heavy crossover in skills obviously.
5) I think we are all trying to find one boat that we can all buy (afford!) to compete on and compare ourselves with in both distance and bouy formats. Currently this is trending (strongly) to f-18 and we'll see more people pursieing the Mischa and JC patterns and exceling at both formats on the same platform.
6) Then we can hold the acat vs f-18 mega sail off in boat swapping alter cup format in a month long series in Pensacola.
7) Trey has to sail with both hand tied behind his back.

Ok whatever,
humbly,

Interesting thread...
Having raced against most of the above mentioned in both acat worlds and tybee formats (although at the back of the pack and usually just seeing the acaters at the start and if they lapped me ), I have several thoughts:
1) all the above mentioned are awesome sailors, its like saying whose better, the beatles or the rolling stones. They are both great, but different.
2) In general the tybee is a younger mans race, the acat is a boat that you can stay with as you mature both intellectually and physically. The acaters by virtue of their longer careers will in general have longer resumes in which the earlier entries will include distance achievements, and no doubt todays tybee champs will likely evolve into an acat equivalent format as they mature.
3) That being said, the tybee is about endurance and maintenence of the "groove". Every second literally over 7 to 15 hours that you can't quickly refine and hold that boat at max efficiency, you will lose ground. I don't care if your hungry, thirsty, tired, gotta pee, got salt water or suntan lotion in your eye, your hands are cramped, you don't feel good, your nose itches, whatever, you gotta focus like a razor every minute, no break. Whoever can do that the best, the longest, is gonna win.

The acaters however will know more about finessing their one sail and everbalancing their very sensitive boat while maintaining the visual chess game of a quickly changing playing field, and will have very well honed mark rounding strategy and start strategy (and finishing strategy).

4) So one person can surely excel at both but maybe not at the same age or stage of their careers and/or have time to simultaneously hone both edges to stay at the top of both efforts, though there is heavy crossover in skills obviously.
5) I think we are all trying to find one boat that we can all buy (afford!) to compete on and compare ourselves with in both distance and bouy formats. Currently this is trending (strongly) to f-18 and we'll see more people pursieing the Mischa and JC patterns and exceling at both formats on the same platform.
6) Then we can hold the acat vs f-18 mega sail off in boat swapping alter cup format in a month long series in Pensacola.
7) Trey has to sail with both hand tied behind his back.

Ok whatever,
humbly,

Bill,




I understand that.

But that still doesn't make the following comment truthful.

"The "honorable mention sailors" (dare I say "second tier" sailors) at the A-Cat Nationals is a cut above their T-500 peers. Hodges, Hall, Cogan, Oliver, Arends.........the list goes on and on...."


I would rather claim that theses names are at best on a par with Heemskerk and JC. But we don't really known from real race data as they pretty much stick to A-cat racing only. We do know however that Ashby has beaten the lot of them many times over and is finding it alot harder to win those class races where sailors like Mischa have made a name for themselves. That is the reason for dragging in the US vs EU tangent.

Smyth may have a long list of international championships of various multihull classes under his belt but Strubble and Melvin are much less celebrated with respect to cat racing. Hell, just look over Melvins record shows this as his major achievements ;

2005 A-cat world champ
1997 A-cat world champ
1996 2nd at F18 European champs (F18 class was only formed in 1994 and was a very young class at the time)
1993 4th Tornado worlds
1988 14th Olympic games Tornado


Refering to the A-cat results is like bootstrapping yourself out of quicksand. You can't proof the skill level is high (as compared to other classes) in the A-cat class because former A-cat champions are sailing in it. In that case my own club races are of very high level as the F16 world champion is participating in those. So what are we left with is :

A pretty unconclusive 2nd at the (very young) F18 Europeans in 1996
A 14th at the Olympics in Korea (out of 20 in total)

That leaves a 4th place at the 1993 Tornado worlds. I think Mischa did something like that at one time as well. But he is still young and may do better in the future, same for JC.


So yeah, Smyth and the Glasers I'll give you that. Melvin is probably somewhere between the two fleets, but I'm personally not convinced that Strubble, Guck, Cogan, Arends, etc are a "cut above the Tybee sailors" as quoted. Truly and honestly, I think that if we place them on a par with Heemskerk and JC that we give them more then enough benefit of the doubt.

And personally I don't include any DN iceboating championships when comparing soft water sailing skills between sailors. I do landyachting myself (very comparable) and it is a different sport altogether.


Personally, I think it is time some of the "A-cat only" gods do some cross training in other cataraman classes if they want to proof their superiority. Ashby did and found it alot more challenging outside of the A-cat framework then inside of it. Which may well also explain why non A-cat based sailors have shorter lists of past championships.

That was my point.


And before anybody tries that other tangent. Yes I do also do judge "my own class" that way. The F16 champ of 2007 was only about 50th at the A-cat worlds.

Wouter