WHAT VESSELS MAY BE DOCUMENTED?
A vessel must measure at least five net tons and, with the exception of certain oil spill response vessels, must be wholly owned by a citizen of the U.S.


HOW DO I KNOW IF MY VESSEL MEASURES FIVE NET TONS?
Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site.

Lets see Dart 20, owned for 8 years, original owner dead, bought for cash and a handshake. Might be hard to register.

Didn't he require you a full "adoption screening" with paperwork for your boat? perhaps the dmv will accept those papers as transfer of parental rights ???

Steve, I can come over and scratch some numbers on the transom for ya!

That's very intresting on the FL registration. I bought a Tornado from Florida and there was no Florida registration or title on the boat at the time. According to the state of Florida and the seller, sail only powered vessels are not required to be title or registered. Texas on the other hand requires all boats over 14 feet to be registered. We had to have all kinds of letters from the state of Florida to bring the boat to Texas and register it.

It seems the laws changed in FL last month but to be honest the law has been (for at least the past 10 years) 16 and under dont require registration, only title... but few if any ever did a title. 20 and up always needed both... but never enforced (at least where i sail)

When I had my boat shop in Key West (thru 1984) every boat we sold came with an MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin). We sold Sunfish (AMF), Lasers, Hobies, J-Boats, Catalinas and Sailcraft Tornados.

If the boat was not to be financed, we just signed the MSO over to the owner. If the boat was to have a motor or to be financed, then the MSO was turned in to the DMV in return for a title.

So...all boats started out with an MSO. We always told the buyers to hang onto it because if they ever wanted to sell their boat outside of Florida, they might need it.

Now, most of those boats have gone through several owners and the MSOs are probably lost.

I wonder if the manufacturers might be willing to issue replacement MSOs if given the serial numbers?

As a sidebar to this, I had a bunch of blank MSOs printed up which we used for trade-in boats that didn't have any paperwork. DMV always accepted a properly filled out MSO with no questions. I think I still have some of those in a file somewhere. Just an idea.....

That explains why a buddy has a title. He financed his.

This is from the Pinellas County tax office
site:http://www.taxcollect.com/Content.aspx?ContentID=63

It looks like we have to title but not register. How are they going to check that when you are out sailing? I don't plan on taking the title with me on the boat.

Exemptions from Titling in Florida

Vessels owned by the United States Government
Non motor-powered vessels less than 16 feet in length
Federally documented vessels
Vessels used exclusively on private lakes and ponds
Vessels already covered by a number(pursuant to the federally approved numbering system) of another state, provided that such vessel shall not be located in the State for a period of 90 consecutive days
Amphibious vessels for which title is issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
Vessels used solely for demonstration, testing or sales by a registered dealer or manufacturer
Vessels owned and operated by the state or a governmental subdivision.



Exemptions from Registering in Florida

Non-motor-powered vessels
Vessels used exclusively on private lakes and ponds
Vessels owned by the United States Government

Are you sure this data from the website isnot outdated? it sure seems everybody else who has first hand experience agrees the law changed last month...

This is from the "Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor ..."

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/faqboat.html#7

"Is a non-powered vessel required to be registered and titled?

If the non-motor powered vessel is less than 16 feet in length, it is not required to be registered or titled. However, if the vessel is 16 feet or more in length, it is required to be registered and titled."

There are so many confused opinions here the ONLY way to clear the air is to read the law. Yes, Jeff, the DMV does have the wrong book. So did the FWC when I called them. The lady at FWC and I found the pertinent section is the Florida Statutes, chapter 328. Here is the link.

Florida Statute 328 VESSELS: TITLE CERTIFICATES; LIENS; REGISTRATION

It's easy to use the table of contents to find the NEWEST laws. Don't go by the people with printed guidebooks. Many of these laws will update again tomorrow, Oct.1, 2009. Stay current...ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

Jon (Headhunter), etching your own falsified number is a third degree felony, clearly addressed in 328 and pointed out by the FWC people. They are serious folks, those FWC, and they carry guns.

Steve Fisherkeller, you are in a world of hurt with your Dart. With both Smitty and Rocco gone all records of your number-less Dart are gone and the FWC definitely WILL treat it as a stolen boat. This is clearly spelled out in 328 as well. Rich, who bought my old Dart, is working on it and I expect the FWC detective to interrogate me this week as a seller of this "stolen" boat. They consider ANY boat without a number to have had the number obliterated and it's probably a stolen boat. I'd get a written statement from the UK manufacturer swearing that there never were etched hull ID numbers and stating how many Darts were shipped here. They can't put you ALL in jail. Can they?

As for Jack's comment on the MSO document, he's spot on, again detailed in 328. I called Performance to try to get a copy of the MSO for my 1998 Nacre 5.0 and was told it was given to the original dealer who received the boat, the Sailing Shop in Orlando. A visit to Sunbiz.org showed that Saling Shop dissolved it's corporation in 2002. I'll call Performance and grovel a bit tomorrow and beg for a copy of the MSO.

When Sailing Shop sold my boat the buyer got the MSO and "should" have used it to get a title from the DMV. Florida DMV says they will search the Hull Identification Number and see if a title was ever generated in trade for the original buyer's MSO. If they find a title in the record they will contact that person and advise them to pay for a duplicate title and then sign the boat over to the current owner. If there was never a titled then the current "owner" (me) must get a court order. I will figure out how to do that in the morning. I have a lawyer friend in the courthouse.

I spent hours on the phone today talking to the DMV, FWC (Tampa), FWC (Tallahassee), and FL Boating and Waterways (branch of FWC law enforcement). Each person I spoke to had an opinion but are not all in agreement. I explained that I was representative of hundreds and perhaps thousands of unregistered and/or untitled sailboat owners. They really have to prepare a solution that works for most of those honest people so the problems don't have to be solved on a case by case basis involving a criminal investigation (or criminal falsification of records by frustrated sailors.)

What a mess.

That's pretty funny.

Dave,
This presents a real problem for me. I have all the original purchase documents but 3 years after I had the boat Mystere replaced the Starboard Hull. Guess where the Boat registration numbers are? I notified my insurance at the time but never updated an other documents or have anything offical from mystere.
This is bound to turn into a mess.
Hope I don't run into problems next weekend.
jeff

When you talk to your lawyer friend, ask if there are any Fla laws that would convince people to move quickly on solving this problem.

When Texas required title and registration they setup a uniform procedure (include a notarized statement that this boat is yours and why it was never titled). They did not do this to be nice but because they wanted the money and they were worried about actions against them. My memory is fuzzy but some of the concerns were: No uniform enforcement. Someone getting jailed or even hurt because of misapplications of a different law (conducting a criminal investigations because you want to comply with the new boat law). Change of status of property. I don't understand this but the example was "I got an aluminum canoe with my house".

Keep pushing and remember at least in Tx they did not care about existing boats. They wanted the sales tax on new boats and they just needed a way to get the old boats into the system, without spending too much money.

Write down how much money the state collects on each old boat, how many hours state employees spend, and multiply by an estimate of the number of unregistered boats. Write up a nice letter. Send a copy to the author of the bill, all the State Rep's in your area and couple of TV stations and newspapers. For $50 you can send out a lot of letters, I know don't ask me how.

Can you file class action in Fla?

Awesome! Hows that "innocent until proven guilty" thing working out?

Maybe I DON'T want to move to FL.

I don't plan to register my Capricorn or A-Cat because I only use them for racing. Per Chapter 328, 328.56 Vessel registration number, (9) an undocumented vessel used exclusively for racing is not required to display a Florida registration number.

Jennifer Lindsay

The AI school of training

How do you signal that you are racing?

Has anyone in Florida actually been issued a ticket or warning for not having their sailboat titled and registered? If not, don't worry about because if you continue, you are just openning a can of worms.

Jennifer

This came up as a result of 2 sailors (one ocalacat on this site) being unable to title thier boat. the other is unable to sell his boat due to no title (to someone from georga).

I know of no one recieving a ticket... but the thought of my cat being siezed until i can proove i own it is enough for me to want to find the remedy....

I've purchased a boat from Fl before (when they were not required to title boat or trailer. I went to the DMV with the bill of sale and explained that the trailer was not required to be titled in FL. They titled the trailer for LA, took my money and I was on my way (well maybe I had to make two trips...) If he is selling the boat to someone in GA, its interesting why the state of FL is involved at all. They don't even know the boat exists. So sell me the boat, I'll register it here (for a small fee ;-) and then I'll sell it to whom ever you want to.

There that takes care of it! Hmmm, do I need a brokers license now??????

Clayton