Starting this one off-
1) Lack of an organized racing/event schedule (at least in the US)

Current rule set does allow for someone to build a very expensive boat from exotic materials that would be quicker than current F16s on the market.

Fleets are very small and in isolated pockets. Boats are predominantly manufactured either by home builders or small local manufactures with the exception of AHPC. Fleets are generally made up of the local manufacturer’s product.

Dealer access outside of north west Europe

Why are there not the same "uber boats" in the A class fleet? Their rules are similr in what they control?

Have you seen the price of A cats...... And they carry a lot less hardware!!!!

Perhaps they are all "uber boats"

How so?

A class has a slightly longer mast

Single handed F16 has the following extra

1, Additional sail (spi)
2, Blocks and deck; beam mast fittings for spi
3, Spi pole

Not a massive difference!

So, if you are saying that there isn't much difference in the fitout etc then why is an A cat so much more expensive than an F16?

Are all these A cat guys getting ripped off?? are the A cat builders charging too much??

Maybe the F16 builders should start building A cats for the same price as their F16 (even less because there is less equipment..)

Macca, how much is NACRA paying you to attack the F16 class?

The rules are less restrictive - length, width, sail area, min weight, and min tip separation on boards when down. There's plenty of experimentation goes on. The cost of Ben Hall's solid wing boat at the Worlds before last would have been pretty high. You can also buy a certain German boat for around 50% more than most others.
The boats are expensive but it gets down to the favourite topics of this forum - weight and stiffness. When you are down to 75kg for a complete 18 foot boat it costs in materials and skilled labour. It doesn't seem to be an impediment though - numbers are booming worldwide and the quota of 100 at this month's Worlds in Italy has been heavily over-subscribed - go figure in a GFC

Cheers

Wow, that got sidelined quick.

I think the biggest weakness, is also a weakness for all of the U.S. class's at the moment. Not enough people participating in the sport. The F16 is the newest of what I think of as the serious classes: H16, A-class, F18, F16 and sits in a some what precarious position. Things are going well and what would seriously hurt other classes, would probably kill off the F16. On the flip side, the F16 came to light in a rather rough time for cat sailing, and has managed to flourish despite numbers being so low as a whole for the sport.

Because our formula rule do a much better job of keeping cost under control.

The A-cat rule set is alot more open then ours and the rules that they do have are alot more challenging to meet. A spinnaker package and a few extra blocks don't weight 30 kg for example. There is a major difference between a 75 kg A-cat and a 100 kg F16 (without the spi package). Although not so much in performance apparently. Come to think of it the Viper had a right killing in that All-carbon SMOD F20 class lately. Seems we were right all along. Using carbon fibre and other hot stuff isn't really all that it is hyped up to be.

Plain and simple.

Good point Ace !

Wouter

A Class and F16 have essentially the same rule set:-

unlimited use of carbon
no restriction on core
carbon masts
carbon beams
carbon foils and rudder boxes

these are the main drivers of cost

The F16 requires extra strength in the platform compared to the A class due to the loads of a jib and spi, plus the F16 is required to carry 2 crew and added to the extra volume required to carry the additional sails the hulls are much larger as well as the beams, this accounts for a large part of the weight difference.

add in the self tacker, carbon spi pole, chute and hardware for jib and spi (don't forget the sails) The weight difference isn't so great by now...


plain and simple enough?

Huh funny, last time I checked a F16 with carbon foils (standard on all F16's), carbon boxes (standard on 50% of F16's), carbon reinforcements in the hull and even a carbon mast was still below 20K and stiffer then the F18's (even when corrected for weight differences between both classes).

So, I guess the other class rules (that the A-class does not share with us) are doing a fine job of controlling the costs.

Wouter

So, again I ask: why is an A cat more expensive than a F16?

Why don't you ask the A cat Builders?

There are at least two of them that frequent this board.

I don't know, I've never built a cat, but my first guess would be, they build fewer of them, by hand, slowly, because it takes more time and effort to get it lighter and keep the strength?

Indeed !

Wouter

Macca Are you saying you want to compare a single handed A class with a 2 up F16? is that sensible?

nope, but unless you are going to start building F16's that are not capable of carrying 2 persons and a jib, you will need to still build the boat to handle such loads.. and hence the weight and costs

OK. What is the price of a C2 at the moment?