I've found a "late 70's era fiberglass" tornado for sale that is well within my price range and I've got a few ?'s for the Tornado sailors amongst us.

1) I'm guessing that this thing has the "old rig." What does this imply? Is the main sail shape different? If I were to want to upgrade to the "new" rig, what would it cost me? How about the helm systems?

2) The boat comes with a trailer, albeit non-tilt. Is it possible to trailer it assembled down the road like this?

3) Under mainsail alone, would it be possible to singlehand this boat?

4) Is there anywhere online I could find a spec sheet for line lengths for the tornado? (like the NAHCA site for hobies?)

I realize that I'd have to spend a lot to get this boat up to date, but I've done it with one boat already, and the money leftover from selling mine could more than pay for the parts to get this other one on the water.

1. The old rig is a larger jib that sheets back on the tramp, a pinhead main and single trap. The new rig is a smaller self-tacking jib, a larger square head main, double trap with a spinnaker.

2. T-boat=10ft beam, road legal width=8.5ft. Depends on how many tickets you are willing to pay and how many mailboxes you want to take out.

3. I'm sure you could single hand it, but it depends on the wind strength.

4. The T is a very open design as far as the deck layout goes. They are as individual as the sailors on board. I doubt that you will find a page that lists line lengths. Imagine that you will have to strip 95% of the deck hardware off, relocate all of it with mostly new hardware. Given the age of the boat, I would suspect that all of the standing and running rigging will have to be replaced. I would think that you will spend more on rigging than you would on the boat. Rough estimate, 3k for sails (1000 for spi, 1200 for main, 4-500 for jib, 3-400 for battens). I couldn't comment on standing rigging, but I know Dynaform wire is more expensive than standard 1x19 wire. Couple of hundred bucks for a spi pole, ~260 for four spi blocks, ~350 for main blocks. Thats before you get all the little 10 dollar blocks for all the control lines. Then the lines themselves. Possibly/probably need a new tramp. What condition are the boards and rudders in? I think there is at least 200 dollars in just the self tacking track and 500 in the mid-pole (Guck) snuffer.

Does the mast have diamond wires on it? Who made it (mast and hulls)?

If you want to go handicap racing, the T is not a really good boat to do that with. Since so many great sailors sail that boat, the PN has been driven down to the point where you have to be as good as they are to sail the number. If you want to race one-design, a 1970's boat will not be competitive.

Not to sound so down on the idea, but it's a very involved process to convert a boat over. Knowing where to place blocks and why takes a lot of experience. I helped convert a T-boat last year and learned quite a bit in the process. I'd love to have a T, they sail so well, but the pains of owning one and being competitive. There are much less costly and demanding boats out there with great one design racing. I would also consider that there would be very little market for a 70's set of hulls with a new rig on it.

my 0.02

Will R

Maugan,
As far as the trailer, a tilt trailer can be very scary to tow, and the only alternative is take the boat apart and put it together every time you sail -- a very time-consuming process.

Thank you for the input.

The hulls and boards are said to be in good condition... I'm currently waiting to get pictures so I can determine if it is worth it. It comes with a "like new" sail and an older sail. Not sure on the age of the blocks and rigging, but I'll be sure to ask. Basically, the spinnaker can wait... I'm honestly just looking for a project boat that will get me to the beach before my buddy Robert I don't race often, and never in class, but I am interested in doing some distance races. After I sell my boat and buy this one, I'll have about $1500 with which to replace all the things that need replacing. I don't need a self-tacking jib (I've got to give something to my gf to do) and I'm figuring on refinishing the hulls as I did with my 17.

Basically the hulls, boards, tramp, mast and beams and sails don't need replacing, but figure that I'll need to get it in running order and replace most everything... it sounds like an economical way for me to step up to something more powerful, faster, and more fun.

I'd buy a H-20, N6.0 or a I-20 if that is what you are looking to do. The initial purchase cost would be a bit higher, but there would be next to nothing to buy. Not to mention how much easier it would be to move. It takes quite a while to put the boat together and take it apart. Figure an additional 1.5 hrs of assembly and 1 hr of tear down.

If you get one of the other platforms, you can go race if you want and possibly upgrade to a F-20 boat if the class ever gets started. You say you don't race now, but it's addictive. I'd go get a ride on a H-20 or 6.0 some time, they are both great sailing boats with plenty of good boats on the market at a reasonable price.

W R

Well the thing about that is I have two weird little issues, some would call it personality defects...

1) I like sailing something unique. I haven't seen a tornado in NC... ever.

2) I enjoy working on boats as much as I do sailing them. I can't tell you the amount of joy that refinishing my H17 brought me. Call me crazy... I probably am.

Another thing about the trailer. He says that it can be easily converted to a tilt. That would probably be the first thing I'd do.

Check out Darren Bundock's T site.
They built a simple tilt trailer for their T that they just fool around with in Australia. The key is the axel wheel base which must be much wider then a standard beach cat trailer (a power boat trailer is a good platform to start with).

All I can say is... if you like working on boats... then a tornado is the boat for you. It turns out that there is always a better way to do something on the boat and so you are never short of projects.

The biggest drawback to a recreation sailing a T cat are the centerboard gaskets. You shouldn't simply beach the boat for lunch. The sand will chew up your gaskets and require freqeuent PIA changes. Now, if you don't race... you can probably go for a while on trashed gaskets and when the water swooshing up the centerboard trunk bothers you, its time for some maintenance. The biggest plus is that of all the 20 footers out there... the classic T is the best boat for a big breeze and can be sailed with your girl friend comfortably. I would not consider the boat if you must build and take it apart for every sail. If you join a club and can leave the boat together they are great boats.

Jill Nickerson of Fun in the Sun is the Tornado dealer/ expert and Greg Scace has been in the class for ever and can fill you in on the older boats.

Mark: Just found out 5 minutes ago that I might be moving into the DC area. In which case, are there clubs where I could leave it around there?

And, Maugan, if you talk to Greg Scace, ask him about the unique tilt trailer he designed.

Maugan,
Rick owned four different Tornadoes from the late '60's to the late '70's. One was wood and the other three were fiberglass. He can't remember the numbers, but I just thought, gee, maybe the boat you are looking at used to be one of Rick's.

Actually only three of them might still be around. One of them he had named "Tension," and I guess it lived up to its name because it jumped off the trailer on a freeway and self-destructed.

this one is located in texas.

I still haven't heard back from the owner though.. so I'm beginning to think this is either a phantom sale, or he's already sold it

Tadd,

I ran across a '93 TheMightyHobie18 here in Norfolk last week that needed nothing. I may still have the guys #. send me a note off line if you want any details.

Mike

Thanks for the offer, but I'm really looking for something in the 20+ foot range.

Go 6.0. The bad boys of cats (and you can trailer it in one piece). Then get ready for all the people make fun of how small you are.

well the guy sold the tornado today.. apparently the new owner drove off with it 2 hours ago

but it wasn't me.

Jake, can't afford the 6.0 right now.

I think if I go 20, it'll be an inter.

The N6.0na is the best deal by far for a 20 footer. Go for a ride and you won't look back. There should be quite a few used ones around.

I'm gonna get a ride I hope this weekend on Jake's.... hopefully the wind will cooperate

Hi
Too bad it didn't work out. I'll save my raving about the Tornado for later I guess.
OK I'll use the joke anyway:
New sails: $1200
New tramp $500
Look on the face of the Hobie sailors you just blew by like they were standing still: Priceless

Al

One thing also for anyone to consider when looking at an older tornado is the rig. The masts were changed in the late 80's to prebend masts. before then the rigs were not prebend and if you put a modern sail on one, it could break. The beams also got upsized around the same time. Makes a difference in platform stiffness. other than that, I agree with Mark. Great boat, nice and stable. I sail it with the classic sail plan and my girlfriend (with little sailing background) easily crews for me.

Take Care.

If you are interested in a Tornado I can try to put you in touch with a couple of people who had Tornado's for sale in your price range. Boats like this are not advertised anymore, these may be gone but there are others. One was a Reg White on a tilt trailer the other a Holt (Gougeon) wooden boat, I don't know about the trailer.

There are also Marstroms available, on tilt trailers they will run $11,000 to $15,000. This is probably outside your price range.

Most of these boats are in Texas. There are similar boats in the DC area. Get in touch with the active sailors ( the ones who interact with other sailors) they probably know of some.

If you want unique, the Holt may be a better boat. The wooden boats, as long as they have been stored properly and not abused, are more repairable than the older fiberglass boats. (Look at the pictures of how wooden boats are built, you could repeat any of those steps if required) The wooden boats take small dings a little better (more resistant to dints) and varnished boats look like fine furniture. Don't take the nonskid off the deck. A freshly varnished and waxed wet deck is slippery. You will look like a cat on ice until you fall off the boat

As far as trailers are concerned. You rig and launch a Tornado on it's beach wheels (there are a few exceptions). For trips over 150 miles, on a tilt trailer, it's much better to take the tramp off. So for regattas there is not a huge difference between tilt and non tilt trailers. For going to the beach, the tilt trailer wins hands down. In terms of rig time, it is comparable to the H20.

Tilt trailers need a 8-8.5 ft wheel width. They also need weight down low to stabilize them in crosswinds. A really good trailer will skitter sideways, instead of flipping in a cross wind. I have seen 4 types of tilt trailers:

1) Scary homebuilt trailers. (one day these are going to flip, drop the boat on you or explode when you try to tilt them)
2) Built from Class Association plans (OK depending state of repair and quality of craftsmanship)
3) Professional built (HEAVY mothers (1000-1500 lbs) can carry one boat tilted or 3 broken down, will survive higher cross winds and can be used as a light duty fork lift)
4) Exotic - Range from the better idea to the personal dream and from the awesome to the why?
(Note: if you replace the 1/4" valve with a 1" valve, the pressurized reservoir tilt systems can be used as a catapult. This is fun if you are throwing people into the water, not much fun if you are tilting your boat. The only excuse I have ever heard for this episode was "it seemed like a lot better idea before we sobered up" (names withheld due to threats of violence))

As far as sailing, the Tornado is a great boat. The classic rig is one of the few fast boats suitable for couples. The new rig needs 2 ~180 Lbm men working hard on the wire. These boats are awkward on land but make up for it on the water I have not found a nicer sailing or faster boat once you get to trap conditions. There are a lot of used sails available. It is possible to have a Tornado, with a spinnaker for distance sailing a new rig square top main for light wind days and a classic rig for high wind days. You can mix and match.

Tornado's are not surf boats. If you break a rudder, you will cry. They are expensive. This brings up another point. The cost of repairs is proportional to the original cost. These were expensive boats. There are a lot of used parts available but one day you will have to buy a new part that can cost twice what an old boat did. This why a lot of old Tornado are just left to die.