I'm looking for a boat design/plans, a homebuilt 14-16' cat that I can highly modify.

I plan to enter the 1200 mile Ultimate Florida Challenge in March 2012
http://www.watertribe.com/

Below is my first model/mockup of my design, a freestanding biplane rigged folding catamaran. In the first pic you'll see my oars but I'd like to set up a peddle prop drive.
In the second pic the boat is setup for the 40 mile portage.
Remember, these pics are only a model to help convey my idea, much is still needed and things will change, get modified, over and over ......

Some competitors walk this route and push/pull their portage carts while others use a bicycle to tow it. I want to tow it, if i can.

Or, I'd like to use the same parts for both the prop drive and for the bike, or turn the boat into a bike, or some combo of this nature.

If I left the bike whole, and the bike was always ready to go, when I re-provision for water/supplies then I'd have an instant and quick ride. Towing is easy this way? and maybe set it up like some of the water bikes for while on the boat?

Anyway, I got a few different ideas rolling around but my plan A is to use oars and the bike to tow. A prop drive would require a bunch of designing, testing and cost ....




I am also looking for a boat design .......

My design considerations for the boat are:
1) unstayed masts , quickly removable
2) biplane rig
3) reef ready , roller furling?
4) hulls - flat bottom (shallow draft), pull onto beach
5) hulls - hatches for storage
6) hulls - floatation, unsinkable
7) hulls - dismantled/folded for 40 mile portage
8) hulls - lee board/center board, must kick up
9) hulls - rudders, must kick up
10) hulls - front net/tramp
11) boat must be portaged 40 miles!
12) live aboard for 15/30 days, eat/sleep
13) aux manual propulsion, oars / peddle drive prop
14) aux sail plan : kiteboarder kite
15) carry all gear and supplies for 15/30 days
16) easy to build
17) wheels for portage?

Links so far:

watertribe:
http://www.watertribe.com/

texas200:
http://www.texas200.com/

Duo 425:
http://www.ikarus342000.com/DUO425page.htm

Duo 480:
http://www.ikarus342000.com/DUO480page.htm

KD800:
http://www.ikarus342000.com/KD800page.htm

here is a link to another thread I got going about this:
boatdesign.net


In looking around for different designs I came across the K-designs , they had designs for a 14' and 16' biplane rigged cat, along with a folding cat, exactly what I've already spec-ed in and made a model of, perfect, I got a place to start from. It's all too similar, scary actually! But I'm still looking around for other available designs so I can make an educated decision.

the 425 uses windsurfing gear, can't use that in the race. It has to be able to reef, and roller furling would be nice, so I'm also looking for a rig that's oh about 9 square meters-ish

Now I know that in races, everyone wants to keep their design a secret so they can have an edge against their competitors but the watertribe race is different and I just look at it as one big ol' and long messabout with friends. Developing, building, testing this boat will take much more time than actually racing it and it'll be a fun thing to share. Too many times I see something and it's like a big black secret, you want to know more about something but it's just not to be shared. Not in this case!

I welcome any and all comments, ideas and suggestions! Even a competitor with the same idea.

Presently I have "Sew Sew" to worry about if he can keep from crashing and breaking his gear. He's for all out speed and quickness. And he has a very light boat. He'll be the one to catch in 2012, maybe that will be me?

Anyway, we all have spot trackers, so when it's time to follow the race it'll be a lot of fun for everyone. Kinda like following the Dakar Rally with the time span of about 2 weeks. Wacky machines, crazy competitors, an impossible course and wild weather, all should make for another great adventure!

After looking around (a lot) I find this F16 class, and the Razor Blade. Is this a homebuilt ply/epoxy boat? Remember, I got to portage this boat 40 miles, so lighter the better. I'd go to 14' if I though I it could carry the extra gear (about the weight of another sailor) but there's not that many 14' designs out there, but there are 16' designs to choose from.

Help me find a set of hull designs that will be my platform for a winning design!

Aquatically yours,
Dennis Barrett
South Padre Island, Texas

Hey Dennis,
I have considered doing the race only haven't figured out the part of taking off 30 days off work. The only person to complete the race on a cat is crazy russian.
To his credit he completed in a very respectable time using an inflatable cat with a full size collapsible mountain bike and trailer.
Having completed the NCC Challenge twice and what I learned last Sept I will be happy to relate to you.
DO THE MATH!!! An inflatable boat or an A-cat can weight in under 450 pounds. An Isotope with two people and gear can hit the scales at 800pounds.
Think about it rowing against the flow of the river 100 miles.
The folding catamaran is ingenius but either needs a longer waterline or super bouyant hulls.
My best idea is an A-cat with a 3/4 high mast, bmx bike, and a frame to turn the hulls into a trailer. This sound like a fragile way to go but it keeps the weight off.
The inflatable catamaran is still a very good candidate. The things I would do different that Crazy Russian would be longer oars and maybe a double centerboard setup but these items take weight.

Good Luck,
J.P.Ayers
Isotope 186
Holdyourcourse

Actually I got to put the numbers into real life and try it all out. I got a 16' prindle that I'm gonna weigh, put wheels under and try to tow with a bike. Then I'll add all the weight that I think I'll carry, and tweak the wheels and portage setup until it works (or fails ending this whole idea).

If this all works out, then it's on to the rowing aspect and put this idea into the water and "see if it floats". I got great testing grounds, similar to florida so this is great.

Then comes the sailing tests using windsurfing gear ....... again, my 2 sets of prindle 16 hulls will be my test platform.

Initially I'll build up the folding system with what ever "stuff" I got laying around to make a full scale mockup with the prindle16 hulls.

My tests will help me further the design and show me what new design aspects I hadn't yet thought of awaits me.

Take a look at the mast on the Hobie s+ark (google for "hobie stark" for pics), I thought this was a really good idea for a folding mast and side wheels.

very creative and interesting project!

I think this is the brochure for it. Interesting designs

http://www.hobie-cat.net/img/news/dp_hbystarck_gb.pdf

Be sure to scroll down for the illustrations.

What kind of terrain are you going to have a traverse during the 40 mile portage?

The Razor is designed by the same guy who designed the Blade. Both designs are suitable for epoxy/ply but Phill's rationale behind the Razor was that it should be simpler to build this way than the Blade.

Phill Brander can be PM'd via this forum (username: phill)

Try this one:
http://triaksports.com/

Saw them at the Ft. Lauderdale boat show when I went with TMS. Hulls designed by M & M. Lightweight, furling jib, spinnaker, nonstayed mast and light.

I like the basic idea, especially the little spin. But I'm just not buying the center seating thing.

I watch Triak development for 15(?) years, probably more. It had foiled floats originally. I see design flaw there - it is rear position of floats. Basically, in any serious seas it should behave very much like a tricycle, always ready to flip over or put the driver all the way underwater. I think it can be very uncomfortable boat to float 1200 miles nonstop. It would be nice if somebody prove me wrong. Watertribe events have always been test for serious expedition crafts. We didn't see Triyak there yet. I wonder why.

Talking about catamaran for the challenge.

I wouldn't worry about portage (40 miles flat hardtop) as much as about last 30 miles of upper St.Marys river.
I skipped this section of the river by doing longer portage in 2010. However this rule's loophole is closed. Upper 30 miles of St.Mary will be back breaker - constant current, in some stretches it is over 2 knots, and deadwood lying across the river. I have no strategy for the river myself yet. Catamaran will be too wide. Either someone need to collapse it into narrower platform and figure out reliable propulsion system for both narrow and wide boat. Or take the wide boat and be ready to cut(sew) the way through. I think I'll go with the second option.

I did curry a bike this year. However, I don't think I'll take it for the next challenge. Walking the boat proved to be easy, albeit slow. An extra 20 lbs of bike and trailer can be deal breaker in upper St.Marys. I don't know yet, some testing needed.
Anything over 300 lbs total weight is too much for one person, in my opinion. I'd aim at 200 lbs for the boat max.

If I've had unlimited resources, I'd go for hard shell boat, not inflatable

I'm heavy guy so A-cat is out of question for me.

F-16 looks like a good pretender. I'd make it a bit narrower, 7 ft max, and put some wings on it.

Or I'd take Hobie Wave and build light weight 15 ft long hulls for it and Hooter and be happy.:)

But I'm poor and broke, so I'll use inflatable cat again
Probably, I'll get better faster new boat from Russia, or been as lazy as I am just take my old boat around Florida again.

It seems like we will have some very strong competition in 2012. There are some very strong paddlers going to sign up and I foresee that best paddling time will move to 16-17 days (It is 19 days now)
Will Randy Smyth be faster? I'm pretty sure he will, however I don't expect anyone finishing in less than 15 days so it will be very close race.
And, beside Randy we may have strong sailors there too, I hope

CrazyRussian out

It is mostley flat county roads in South Georgia between the headwaters of the St. Marys and Suwanee Rivers.

Good luck to all of you. This sounds too much like work for me.

I dont see how Randy will do 15 plus days on sew sew.

Did anyone other than the Russian do this on a cat in past years?

I like the idea of this adventure race, but I'm not sure a traditional cat would work. Assuming, you can get around the 40 mile portage, and the 100 mile upstream issue, how do you manage the river rapids? And what about restocking? Or do you pack for 20 days? How about sleeping/camping for 20 days, do you just come ashore and camp? Sleep on the boat? What have the past racers done?

Thats quite a list, and it doesnt exist,you've got way too many constraints to make anything that is fast. If you do you'll end up with a really slow, heavy boat and you've only got 5 months to build it, so, I think you'll need to start with an existing platform. If you want to beat Randy and the Russian, you have to start with the premise that your sailboat needs to be fast, faster than an inflatable and more proven than Randy's folding trimaran.

I would start with an Acat, and modify it and beef it up. Go find a used, older Acat. Its light and fast enough to beat the Russian and as fast as Randy's tri, and if you are not looking for the latest/greatest design, you will find a bargain. I would chop down the mast or consider a two part mast, (find a broken one and fix it, make a 2 part mast.)and a reefing sail (take a used Acat and modify, plenty around) If you really wanted speed, add a spin, (do a search for Acat with spin, there is a Dutch sailor that has video posted and its impressive) A spin plus an Acat is the fastest all around cat design I've seen. Go find a used F16 spin, or a used F18, HT, or something similiar. You will stomp on the Russian and leave yourself lots of room for the portage and the upriver parts.

Portage
Flip the acat upsidedown, attach 2 wheels so the boat is balanced, and pull with soft harness a bike or walk/jog. Is a skateboard for rollng down hill worthwhile? and jog/walk the rest? A bike seems too heavy, I would go for lightness and speed to win. If you keep the boat assembled, you could pack all your stuff on the tramp when its upside down.

100 Mile upriver
Can you row this? Can you sail upriver? Can you add a kite - like a kite surfer - kite. Light and fast. This part has me stumped.

Good luck.

Bill

Without a Paddle: Racing Twelve Hundred Miles Around Florida by Sea Kayak [Hardcover]
Warren Richey

Get this book and read it (Amazon) ...it is a great story and you will see that it will be very difficult for a small cat to navigate the St.Marys and Suwanee rivers. Both have low bridges and shallow water, bounded by overhanging trees and headlands. I think there is probably a 200 mile stretch where you could not sail at all. The upper Suwanee has several class 3 rapids...A-Cat? I think not!

When I talked to the Triak people at the boat show, they said someone recently purchased one to do one of the Watertribe events. It looks like it paddles very well and you can easily remove the mast. I would build an overhead bracket to store the mast when not in use.

It is about 100 lbs all up. and has tracks for it for easy toting:
http://triaksports.com/transport/

I have an online promo code for the boat show price at $4,500, no sales tax, free delivery.

Wow, this is a cool little boat/kayak. the spin snuffer is really cool.

Yeah that is cool, but I wouldnt want to spend 20 days on it.