Hey Guys.... I got a quick question concerning the spinnaker for the Hobie 16. I am wondering the difference between the Hobie spinnaker and the trapseat Hobie Spinnaker. The second question is, does somebody make a snuffer system for the Hobie 16 or anything else but the spinnaker bag that sits on the trampoline. I like to try and keep the trampoline as clean as possible. Has anybody ever user the trapseat Spinnaker. I think i am going to go with that one, but any comments would help. <br><br>

Here is what I know - The Trapseat Spinnaker is 400 sq. ft. and is symmetrical (I have one) and lifts the bows. Hobie Europe makes a spinnaker that is asymmetrical and I do not know the sail area of their spinnaker, and tends to pull the bows down at certain angles. Also Hobie US makes a spinnaker for the H16 which is actually just a little bigger than the H16 jib – I think it is more of a toy than a real spinnaker, it doesn’t really add any performance benefit.
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<br>I talked with various European H16 sailors that indicated to me that it is better to put a flat top mainsail on your H16 than to get a Hobie Europe spinnaker. The Hobie USA toy spinnaker is a waste of money! Now the Trapseat spinnaker is a totally different situation (must realize I am biased, as I am involved in the Trapseat class). The Trapseat spinnaker tends to lift the bows and does not diminish the H16 performance, actually it increase the performance of the H16 by a considerable amount. As I have mentioned before you will be able to beat H20’s with this Trapseat Spinnaker. The Trapseat spinnaker is used successfully in our annual International Trapseat Cup and Mike Strahles as mentioned kicks but with it. The Trapseat spinnaker is also not manufactured by Hobie Co.
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<br>Also I have not seen anyone use a snuffer system on the H16.<br><br>

Does the Trap-seat spinnaker go all the way up the mast or just up to the jib tang? <br><br>

You have to put a spinnaker tang on the mast about one foot from the top of the mast to accommodate the large spinnaker.
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Geronimo,
<br>There are many options out there as far as spinnakers go.
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<br>first, it would be relatively easy to add a snuffer to a Hobie 16. The snuffer head, pole and bag would cost you around 900$.
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<br>As far as spinnakers go, I have a very different opinion from Miles. I would absolutely chose an asymetrical chute. An asym would be more versatile ie greater range of angles you could sail. An asymetrical chute also adds lift to the bows. The spinnaker for the hobie 16 is likely to be more full then the chute for a faster boat, but not a symetrical chute. The trapseat spinnaker is touted as being 400 ft^2. This would be huge. I think what he is talking about is 400 ft^2 total sail area total (main and jib=218) so spinaker would be around 180 ft^2. This would be large, but reasonable.
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<br>If you are going to get a spinnaker, it will be used for open class racing or distance racing on a H 16. Since there is no established spinnaker class for the boat, go with one of the top sailmakers for multihull sails. My choices in decending order would be
<br>Smyth Team
<br>North Sails Australia
<br>Sabre Sails
<br>Ulman Sails Jay Glaser
<br>Calvert Sails
<br>Elliot Pattison
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<br>I have not sailed a Hobie 16 with a chute, but have sailed a hobie wave with the spinnaker which is a small asym sail. It works well adds to the downwind performance considerably
<br>Eric Anderson<br><br>

Geronimo, just want to comment on Eric’s comments.
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<br>“The trapseat spinnaker is touted as being 400 ft^2. This would be huge. I think what he is talking about is 400 ft^2 total sail area total (main and jib=218) so spinaker would be around 180 ft^2. This would be large, but reasonable.”
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<br>(Eric still waiting on measurements from Mike).
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<br>No actually I am talking about 400 ft^2 just for the Trapseat Spinnaker. And as for performance on an asymmetrical spinnaker just contact some Hobie 16 European sailors, as they will tell you that the asymmetrical spinnaker is no good on an H16. I will try to locate the sailors I contacted in Europe and give you their emails Geronimo so you can talk with them – stay tuned.
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<br>“An asymmetrical chute also adds lift to the bows.”
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<br>Actually from everyone I have talked with this is not the case on CERTAIN points of sail.
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<br>Also once again nothing against the Hobie USA CO. but the Hobie spinnaker is a toy.
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<br>Cheers.<br><br>

Wow 400 sq ft. I've seen that size on a N60 and H20 and the sheet is run to the very back of the boat and sometimes sheeted almost all the way. And that is with a 14' pole. The last time I looked my H16 is not that long. I would sure like to see those measurements. BTW I've seen what a Spin. that size can do to a 20' boat. Dang!!!!
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<br>Clayton<br><br>

Remember it is symmetrical not asymmetrical so the sheeting system is a bit different and the sail does not ride trowards the back of the cat like a reacher. Yes still waiting for Mike to email me with the measurements, if I do not get it soon I will lay out my spin and measure it. Stay tuned!<br><br>

I just got a parts catalog from Hobie USA and they have a spinnaker and pole setup for the H16. It is listed as an asymetrical sail. How would this factory setup differ from some of the other rigs such as the snuffer and trapseat that have been discussed here?
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<br>Thanks!<br><br>

Once again as I mentioned the spinnaker kit form Hobie USA is a toy and sucks. If an asymmetrical spinnaker is what you want you are better off getting it from Hobie Europe as their spinnaker is a real spinnaker and not a just a bigger (not much bigger) jib with a spinnaker pole like Hobie USA's spinnaker. I've seen the Hobie Europe spinnaker and its truly a great spinnaker set up.<br><br>

Oh, cool. Sorry, I didn't see any mention of the Hobie USA setup on these forums. I didn't really look either as I was just asking my question based on what was in my mitts at the time. Thanks for the info.<br><br>

Here is Mike's reply regarding the Trapseat Spinnaker. Mike told me before that is was 400 sq. ft. so I stated it as such event the math did not work out. I am going to measure my Trapseat spinnaker and put the exact measurements on this forum. So here is his reply:
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<br>It is not 400 sq. ft. its more like 300. Mine is getting fixed, but I think it to be 25 ft. luff and just under 15 ft. foot.
<br>Its a tri-radial cut and is flatter then most mono-hull spinakers. This is a symetrical spinaker, meaning it
<br>has the same cut on both sides. Its for running deep downwind and not reaching much because of the
<br>size. In winds past 15 knots, one must sail almost straight downwind using both hulls or its pitchpole city. Reaching on a 16 with a spinaker that big will submurge the leeward
<br>hull in a flash. <br><br>

Sorry this took so long but Mike the inventor of the Trapseat and the Trapseat spinnaker has been very busy etc. Mike suggested I measure my spinnaker, which I will do this week. So here is Mike Strahles response regarding the Trapseat spinnaker measurements and using it.
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<br>THE EMAIL:
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<br>Measure your spinnaker, luff, foot, and report it to your e-mailers. It is not 400 sq. ft. its more like 300. Mine is getting fixed, but I think it to be 25-ft. luff and just under 15-ft. foot. Its a tri-radial cut and is flatter then most mono-hull spinnakers. This is a symmetrical spinnaker, meaning it has the same cut on both sides. It’s for running deep downwind and not reaching much because of the size. In winds past 15 knots, one must sail almost straight downwind using both hulls or its pitchpole city. Reaching on a 16 with a spinnaker that big will submerge the leeward hull in a flash and smaller reaching spinnakers tend not to add much performance to the 16 over the current standard jib and main set-up. Of course a flat top main will also enhance the 16's performance much more than a small reaching spinnaker.<br><br>

About how much does the Hobie Europe chute cost? I would like do do distance races in my 16 but I am afraid a long downwind or reaching leg sailing chuteless. And I like the idea of having a chute to use for fun. <br><br>Hobie 14 sail #17827
<br>Hobie 16 sail #72585

I've seen a few pictures of the hobie europe chute. It doesn't look bad. But why hassle trying to get it shipped over and etc when you could get one from Smyth Team that is probably better and cheaper. The Hobie 18 spinnaker from Smyth is $695, very reasonable, a hobie 18 spinnaker from hobie is $890. To deal with hobie europe you would probably end up dealing with some pretty bad shipping fees. Not to mention if you rip your smyth you send it to him and he repairs it like new. You rip your hobie europe and bring it to a sailmaker it won't be as good as new.
<br>-Todd <br><br>

The Euro Spi has a sail area of 16 square metres (like the main). it gives the cat a lift in the bow (as EVERY SPI).
<br>We used to sail that for 6 years. Together with Detlef Mohr (Euro Champ) we trained a lot and found out:
<br>A. Spi helps in winds less than 12 knots
<br>B. Boom is 75cm to short and cuts therefore the airflow off the main
<br>C. newer Spi available at Hobie Cat Euro
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<br>Hang loose
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<br>Fritz<br><br>

by boom you mean the spinn pole?
<br>I have yet to see a 16 with a spinn up in 4 years of racing but I would love to have one for pleasure sailing the winds up here (upstate NY) being mostly light in mid summer
<br>cheech<br><br>