I assume that if sailing is like most other things, you can save money by buying things that don't say 'Marine' on them, but perform the same function. But most of them do say they have special properties you need on a sailboat. When can you get away with non-marine generics, and when can't you?

For instance, the first thing I did when I bought our used boat was replace all that old line with cheap new rope from Wal-Mart. Bad, bad move. It all stretched, hung up in blocks, and misbehaved in general.

What about Sailkote - it claims "Sailkote is typically five times as effective, and lasts much longer than, wax, oil or Teflon® based lubricants." Are there other dry lubricants that I can substitute that work as well? Particularly for lubricating the sail?

In general, where can I afford to skimp by buying generics, and where can't I?

Jonathan

I like to use Superlube Synthetic Lubricant Spray-I believe it is made by 3M, on the back of the can it says you can use it for sail tracs. You can buy it at Lowes, I think it was about 6 dollars, one can should last several seasons.
I have also used Fastrac sail lubricant-which your Hobie dealer should carry, I do not like it as well because it is messy and gets everywhere except where you want it to go.
Forget buying line at Wal-Mart- pay the extra for the good line and you won't have any trouble,with it, as long as you don't leave it out in the weather line should last for a few seasons.
Happy Sailing!
banannahead

FWIW, I now buy all my line at Layline, since they are local, and I was traumatized by the Wal-Mart experience ;->

But I'm still looking for other ways to save money...

Jonathan

I love your story about trying to buy line @ Walmart - that's a classic!

As for saving money, here are some ideas.

Motorboat market is much larger than the sailboat market. So, anything that's on your sailboat that may also be on a motorboat is usually cheaper at a motorboat place, or at a place that sells stuff to motorboaters, many of whom are fishermen. Example - trailer parts & hitches, outdoor apparel, etc.

Some examples : Walmart sells trailer balls, hitches (for some common models, & trailer wiring).

Academy Outdoor - local TX outdoor & sports type store - no sailboat stuff, but has a motorboat & fishing section. I bought a stainless steel needle nose pliers in the fishing dept for $7.99. I can't even buy a pair of regular steel pliers @ Sears for that - and the stainlesss pliers in West Marine are $18.00 or more.

Home Depot - obviously, for some Stainless hardware, but how about this - I bought a swaging tool @ Home Depot for less than $20. It's not stainless, but that's no problem for me. In sailboat catalog it's almost $75 for the same thing.

JC Whitney - auto parts catalog - has trailer tires in wide range of sizes, pre-mounted or tires only, in several load ranges.

Happy hunting, and don't forget to support your dealer!!!!11

Its sometimes quite hard to support your dealer with the prices they charge, I needed to get new shrouds for my H16 , Hobie charge me ~$50 wheras a local industrial wire company charge $8 for exactly the same bit. (My £ to $ conversions my not be spot on but they are in the right ball park)

An Aluminium casting for a H16 corner peice costs ~$300 an equivalent peice (simialr size and weight) for a car would cost $20.

OK so you can't get a generic casting but it it shows what a rip off the hobie part is.

Gareth

You gotta remember that quantity has a lot to do with it too. The Car industry builds a LOT more of the same thing over and over again and even when they do modify things a bit the process and tooling is still very similar. This quickly leads to a significant cost reduction.

That said, if you buy a part at an automotive supply house versus going to the automotive dealer, you'll find increases that are similar with going from Hobie to the industrial wire company.

There is also a factor that most manufacturers (car makers included) plan on making a significant margin on spare parts. When you buy a car, boat, or piece of machinery, how many times do you ask to see a price list for common wear items and consider that with the overall price? Not very often. When manufacturers start trying to be more competative with their up front pricing the spare parts become a more important money maker.

Sorry Jake I don't buy that.

I agree that quantity plays a big part, but not to the extent that we see with boats. The mark up on boat bits seems to be in the order of 500% to 1000% , hobie v generic, the mark up between a car OEM and generic is only about 50% to100% at best.

That said the casting is probably not a good example because of the up front tooling cost, (thats why you don't see big castings on cats anymore). But you can take almost any other component on a cat and see a similar mark up. Most catamran frames are made up of Aluminium extrusions which should cost $1-$2/kg to manufacture. When Hobie sell you a bare tiller tube they are putting almost no added value into that themselves but you are not getting it for $2/kg!

The previous posts are talking about the same (generic) product being sold at a higher price to a different sector of the market, there is no volume consideration in the equation.

All the best

Gareth

I agree that it sucks! However, I used to have business and personal connections with one dealer for the Mazda Motor Corp (USA)spare parts business - and their pricing matrix reached 400% markup in some areas. I now work for a custom machine manufacturer where we build $80k to $200k machines customized to run different products and it is a standard practice for us to mark up components that we buy off the shelf to help cover the costs associated with the storage space, design/integration time, heating, shipping personnel and equipment, etc. etc - and to make a little money in the process. This is not to mention parts that we design and manufacture ourselves. Basically it costs money to do business/move and store parts regardless of where it originated. We also guarantee a degree of quality and knowledge about how that part should be used that you may not get if you buy, or have manufactured, something somewhere else - and that's probably a fair statement of Hobie, Nacra, etc.

300% markup? Maybe that's not reasonable considering an off the rack 8 foot piece of 1 inch extruded aluminum tiller connector but as the rules of supply and demand apply, someone will most certainly take advantage of the disparagy and profit somewhere in the middle. However, that's not to say anything about 'class' rules apply.

OK, jake you make a good argument, I too work in the auto indsutry but for an OEM, The margins on a car are very small, but the volumes are very high and the competitiion is tough.

Your example reminds me of an engineering joke

There was an engineer who had an exceptional gift for fixing all things mechanical. After serving his company loyally for over 30 years, he happily retired. Several years later the company contacted him regarding a seemingly impossible problem they were having with one of their multi-million dollar machines.

They had tried everything and everyone else to get the machine to work but to no avail. In desperation, they called on the retired engineer who has solved so many of their problems in the past.

The engineer reluctantly took the challenge. He spent a day studying the huge machine. At the end of the day, he marked a small "x" in chalk on a particular component of the machine and stated, "This is where your problem is". The part was replaced and the machine worked perfectly again. The company received a bill for $50,000 from the engineer for this service. They demanded an itemized accounting of his charges.

The engineer responded briefly:

One chalk mark $1
Knowing where to put it $49,999

It was paid in full and the engineer retired again in peace."

I guess you could rewrite it as 8ft of 1" OD 6082-T6 anodised aluminium tube $2, knowing to use that spec of alu tube $18.

I get a lot of practice - I have to defend that policy a lot (I'm a Customer Service Manager).

That's a good one!

That last post made me put away the flame thrower. As a person in business, I have to agree with Jake. You have to cover your cost of doing business when bringing product to market. We have been accused of being too expensive in the past even to the point of one customer actually going into business saying he could do it cheaper and put us out of business. Well he gave away his product and services for about 10 months then he ran out of money. I take care of my customers and it shows, but I also like to eat (and sail). Those things cost money, in the end you get what you pay for.

Clayton D.

I want my dealers to stay in business, and for some things I really need the specialty versions - I buy my line from Layline, I've bought several things from Rick and Mary, others from Murray's. I'm not planning on going out and making my sails out of denim.

On the other hand, if I can save money using a generic equivalent, I'm glad to use something else where a $pecialty $ailing product is not needed. That was the intent of this thread.

Jonathan