Been shopping for a new F-18. The prices are out of control. So if all the measures in the rules are to keep costs down why are they getting to be the most expensive boat to buy.
Prices have jumped almost $10,000 in 6 years. That is just plain stupid. Now it's almost cheaper to buy a F-20C than an Infusion, C2,Wildcat,Cirrus R, or Phantom.

If they can build a Tornado for $21,000 why can't they build a F-18 for that?

The Tornado price you have is a couple of years old and does not include sails.

There is only one opportunity to buy an F20C for less than a new F18 - that is a used vs new scenario, too.

Yes, prices have gone up - in that period, we have seen all F18 production go overseas, so every purchase price for US sailors is based on some other currency. Until Matt finishes the new Falcon Marine F18, that situation will continue.

In addition, while I appreciate your sticker-shock, please take 15 minutes and price a Melges 24... or even the jib for a FARR 40. We have world-class racing for a fraction of the cost in just about any other class on the planet.

I've been wondering the same thing. I bought my 2004 Nacra F18 brand new for $12,800 without trailer and now they are almost twice as much. The pricing doesn't seem in scale with the other boats manufacturers build given the volume they are building them.

2004 - built in Santa Ana, CA and the money went to Nacra US.
2012 - built overseas, money to Nacra Europe.

Quote on a Tornado

15,900.00 EUR = 20,951.01 USD
Yes, its fully rigged and ready to sail out-of-the-box in the new and very strict high quality one design. Its made with Epoxi resin and Airex core.

http://www.darrenbundock.com/darrenbundock/4sale.html

Used boat, race ready, $38K USD

Where are you seeing a new boat for $21K USD? My Google isn't finding anything in that neighbourhood.

Rich Vilvens ‎15,900.00 EUR = 20,951.01 USD great price for that boat.

Rich Vilvens Is that fully rigged?

Roland Gaebler Yes, its fully rigged and ready to sail out-of-the-box in the new and very strict high quality one design. Its made with Epoxi resin and Airex core.

They put the price on the boat being used for the olympic selection trials.

Ah. Not quite apples to apples, eh?

How much to your door from Santander? ;-)

Ok John add a couple grand for tax and shipping it's still cheaper than most F-18's.

The price Rich is quoting is for the Exploder Tornado, and is being used as a selling point to get the class back into the Olympics. The price is quoted here: http://catsailingnews.blogspot.com/2012/02/olympic-trials-interview-with-roland.html The boat comes with one-design sails, which are also price controlled, so I'm sure that helps.

I suspect that part of the reason the price is relatively low for the Tornado is supply and demand. How many Tornados have been sold in the last few years? Have any of the Exploders actually sold at the price given, or is it part of the campaign for the games?

I don't know the answers, and I'm not accusing the Tornado class of anything, but I'm not sure it's a great comparison.

Yea I don't buy it. I understood the Tiger going up as the US dollar inflated compared to the Euro. Than the Wild Cat came out and was up there too. But the Infusion was up there in price along with them well before production moved over seas. Besides, I thought they were being built in China. Isn't labor suppossed to be cheaper over there? Other wise, why move production at all. I think the reallity of it is because they can.
As for the Melges, yes they are expensive little buggers, but it is all really gotten out of hand.

Rich, I get your angst, but you're still comparing a used boat to a new boat - a boat with no class racing in the US to one with lots - and your budget for tax and shipping is pretty tight. A full container from the EU is running about $600/boat with 8-10 boats. You can risk consolidated freight for about $1,200-1,500 plus whatever you get charged by whoever packs it. Then pay your tax when it clears customs.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just factual. You can change the question and get a different answer, I suppose.

If you're looking for a good, used F18, deals abound! Drop me an email and I'll point you at some killer, unadvertised rigs.

edit - Ah, now I see the Exploder price. I don't know anyone who's bought one, so I have no idea if that is real. Note the massive price difference between the Exploder and the Marstrom.

Hey Collin -

Yep, the labor is cheaper, which means the margin is better at the top-tier, which ain't your local dealer or the sailors.

I work in the composites industry. I know that our resin and chemical prices have at least doubled since 2004. The cost of insurance and compliance in the US has been about the same. Every other purchased component , supply etc has gone up also. A double price point boat is not that unrealistic.

Nacra, ahpc, and now Cirrus are all leading the charge to China. No compliance regulations to speak of and cheap labor.

I do not think it is fair to blame currency as the relative rate all across the globe is about the same increase. To believe the class hype that a tight rule set will provide pricing security and/or equal racing is pretty much BS too.
For a long time the Tiger ruled and Hobie was able to more than recover their investment. The success of the class has brought on a huge series of development projects. The Tiger lost at Worlds and just like that we have the Wildcat. The cap while still an almost new design, quickly developed a bad reputation for some of its handling and bam out comes the C2. Nacra had 3 designs come out. Get on any older F18 and a new 1 and the rig development alone makes them almost completely different to sail: constant sail making and rigging evolution. Right now the group all has to tool up new deep daggers. All these things cost money and will continually drive costs of new product. You want to keep costs in line then quit racing.

I spent less than 3K for my first new H16. Now a strict 1 design boat (with relatively speaking zero technology) with all of its development tooling and sales long long ago paid for sells for around 11K.

Like John said: we still have it incredibly good for the relative cost of what we get when buying a cat.

P.S. is that one of the Polish T’s?
I bought a pair of blank carbon mast tubes from Marstom years ago that cost me nearly that much, so I know that price for a new T was not from them.

Just a clarification, Nacra boats and the Viper are built in the same factory in Thailand. Not sure about the C2.

Sorry, but comparing the cost of F18 to Melges and telling us it's all OK? Really?

Sort of like saying why does a Prius cost so much, and being told that a Lexus costs so much more, so it's OK for the Prius to be overpriced.

Apples and oranges.

Having said that, we're all pretty cheap (frugal, whatever), and I personally think they are all way out of line for what you get. Not that I could make them cheaper, I just hate the costs.

Mike

Its more because of stupid environmental laws than anything that everyone has moved their production to Asia.


and, your dollar is fu(king worthless.

Hey, you want to go faster, cheaper?

Get out of the water! For $4,500 you can buy this kit and build it in your garage.

It's like a Harley...with Wings!

http://simplexaero.com/pops-props-cloudster/

Here's a video of it in flight; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSlX8ZHiN7M

Greed Plain and simple.Supply and demand. All the reasons JDub gave increased the price but not to the point of where we are now and the melges crap is just lip service(he likes to call it a straw man).

They're not stupid laws if you don't have to shut down the entire region's industry for a few months when you want to go sailing. Or breathe.