In a word: Yes.

We can build a very stiff F18 for less money if the total boat weight was 166kg. But with the rules being at 180kg, we just build a super stiff F18 for a bit more $.

How long would it stay stiff?

I'll let you guys in on a few secrets.

1. There isn't much mark up in boats.
2. They actually cost next nothing to make
3. Most of the profits are used to directly fund global terrorism
4. The rest of the profits are used by secret societies to keep things like the JFK assassination and moon landing under wraps.

So only the first one is true, but I kinda like pulling conspiracy theories outta my butt.

So, if catamaran sales fund Terrorism, does that mean that Jet Ski sales fund the Global War on Terrorism?

From what I have seen here on my lake, most of the Jet Skis are being driving by....TERRORISTS!!

depends on how many blue pills you take

but seriously, the general laminate on our boats is so over specced (we use foam that is almost twice as thick as the big builders) that the boats are quite unstressed. We can do this because each boat is built carefully by highly skilled people and there is no mess left inside the hulls and the joins etc are all carefully prepared and finished. In the 166kg build there is really not much difference in the overall laminate. We just put more in there because we had to get the weight up!

I'm not saying that I want the weight to change for the class (i'm in enough trouble with the class already!!) but if we want to reduce cost and improve the longevity of the boats there are some solutions out there.

To build a stiff F18 you need to lower class weight.
To build a stiff F16 you need to increase class weight.

Sure, I'm gullible.

No, those are probably just teenagers.

Or, guys that can't afford real power boats and don't have the intelligence to sail a boat...

Mike

Exploder Tornado for € 15.900 ?

Well, that is not going to be the same as a Marstrom we have come to know over the last 20 years. So I don't understand what Roland is getting at other then trying to confuse the quality of a carbon masted Marstrom with the price of an alu masted Hobie 16 with spi upgrade kit.

We all know that that is rather going to be the other way around. When that happens you basically got an outdated design (hull and boards) with a rig that can easily be put on the other boats as well in the way of costs and performance. Or does anyone really believe that a F16 carbon rig will be more expensive then the larger Tornado carbon rig ?

In my view Roland has become a bit unhinged lately.

Wouter

Now you must die. You have violated the law of the sacred order of catamaran exploiters. Ignore the black helicopters and the men outside your windows. Your termination will be swift and painless.

No, you just struggle to understand the written word sometimes

To make it simple for you:-

F18 costs can come down with lower weight
F16 costs can come down with higher weight

Whilst the above statements seem contradictory, it all makes sense when you apply logic, it doesn't take a degree in composite engineering to understand that there are weight/cost/stiffness implications if you are too far skewed with one of the three factors above.

I think the comparison to the Melges 24 is valid. But you have to take more than the cost of the boat into consideration. Both boats are high performance race boats. Both classes are deep with very talented sailors. Both classes have active schedules and North American championships with great attendance levels (althought the M24 numbers have dropped off recentley). With all that in mind, which class is the better bargain? Travel to a M24 regatta, and bring your 4 crew along with you, that's gonna be expensive. Want new sails for that regatta, better take out a second mortgage on your house.

Granted neither boat is cheap by any means, but the bang-for-the-buck factor that the F18 offeres is second to none!

A new set of F16/18 sails is about $4k? (shot from the hip, I didn't look)

How much are M24 sails?!

Coming from someone who owns and has been actively campaigning M24's and F18's for over 10 years. I can tell you that Karl is spot on the costs of running each campaign. One week racing the M24 at Key West, Miami, or Annapolis costs more than my annual F18 budget. The only F18 event that comes close in cost is the Tybee 500...

A set of M24 sails is about $6,500, and they have less than 1/2 the life of F18 sails.

Holy crap.

Back in 2007, I was calling the line on the pin boat for the Melges 32 Nationals in Newport. Someone on the boat made the comment that all the competitors had new sails for that event, and that a set of sails (I think just main and jib) cost $16,000 at that time.

My response: I can buy two whole boats for that (Hobie 16 at the time)!!!

Granted, a 32 carries much larger sails than a 24, but WOW...

Mike

Since the M32's have switched over to carbon sails, the main/jib combo is over $20k.

Thank god, the M24's are still limited to aramid or dacron sail cloth.

Not true!! I was crewing on the one boat that didn't have new sails... and we got destroyed!

Thanks for the laugh Jeff!

Was it really the sails???

Reminds me of Al Bundy: "It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat..."



Mike

No, it wasn't the sails at all. I was sailing with a group from Cleveland (home) that owned the boat to sail as a family. It was a really great group, but the helmsman was in his seventies, and we just weren't competitive with the pros. Great racing though, and I am fortunate to have had the opportunity to race with such a passionate group.