| Re: Respect the Game! Is the fundamental principle still releva
[Re: brucat]
#258053 03/04/13 06:10 PM 03/04/13 06:10 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | You made my point with RRS 87. But, just because the rule is in the book doesn't mean they don't ignore it. I push back every time I'm asked to review as a judge or PRO, and point out that rule. I try to get OA's not to write new rules (and sailing instructions are rules). When they insist, and a protest arises, I have declared SI's invalid. | | | Re: Respect the Game! Is the fundamental principle still releva
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#258054 03/04/13 06:29 PM 03/04/13 06:29 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | John Craig, the AC PRO spoke about the rethinking of the rules for the cup compettion at a talk i attended... It's a mistake to draw parallels between America's Cup rules and RRS fleet racing rules. First of all, the America's Cup is run in an umpired format founded on match racing. If you read the RRS match racing rules, you'll see that one boat must protest (by flying a "Y" flag) in order for the Umpires to impose a penalty. The culture of self-penalization never existed in match racing. Secondly, The America's Cup does not use the Racing Rules of Sailing. It uses a completely separate and independent rulebook. There are many differences between the two sets of rules. Differences in how protests are lodged is a small portion. Thirdly, you're comparing a small group of professional sailors competing in a high-stakes event to a large populace of amateur sailors racing for fun. The professionals are supremely skilled and intimately familiar with the rules. Of course they're going to push the rules to the utmost. That's their job. | | | Re: Respect the Game! Is the fundamental principle still releva
[Re: Isotope235]
#258071 03/05/13 08:59 AM 03/05/13 08:59 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 454 Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204 Tom Korz
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Posts: 454 Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204 | @bacho-This is what I was trying to say!!!  Quoted from Isotope42. In adult dinghy racing, there seems to be an aversion to protesting. I think people view a protest as an accusation of cheating (which it is not). It's simply enforcement. . For the most part though, I think sailors at the club level generally show great personal integrity when it comes to following the rules. If, however, competitors witness rule infractions and don't protest, then they don't deserve to complain. They are (how shall I put this politely)... not part of the solution | | | Re: Respect the Game! Is the fundamental principle still releva
[Re: Isotope235]
#258074 03/05/13 09:36 AM 03/05/13 09:36 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Stop looking at the trees of this debate.
Of course the rules, skills, etc differ and that is not the point of the AC anecdote.... the fundamental rule has not changed
The point is that BEHAVIORS CHANGE...
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Respect the Game! Is the fundamental principle still releva
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#258079 03/05/13 10:16 AM 03/05/13 10:16 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | .... the fundamental rule has not changed
The point is that BEHAVIORS CHANGE... If behaviors changed in AC racing, it is because enforcement became automatic, not because of any change to sailors' ethics. I don't understand where this idea that only the boat breaking a rule is responsible for enforcing the rules. That has never been the case under any version of the Racing Rules of Sailing. All boats are expected to follow the rules. All boats are expected to enforce them. If sailors are not willing to enforce the rules themselves (as expected under the Basic Principle of Sportsmanship and the Rules), then I have little sympathy when they complain that others don't. I beleive that the solution to the problem that Peter Wilson wrote about lies not in pining for the good old days, nor in a different penalty system, but in changing the attitude that enforcement is somebody else's responsibility. If you want to discuss why people don't protest, and what might be done to encourage them, then I'm happy to participate. Otherwise, I'm tired of repeating myself. Sincerely, Eric | | |
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