Its ok... the Pb jacket protects me from high velocity projectiles.

Sorry you can't relate to my viewpoint.

I guess that *was* kinda mean - I should have refrained from posting that.

Tracie

Yep, I will tell you your response is young and stupid.

The boats we sail are not designed for these conditions. It is poor seamanship to attempt a "stunt" like this. If you feel the need to be on the water in +30 knots of wind, take up sailboarding as there is much better equipment designed for these conditions.

Maugan17,

Let me revise my previous post a little -- I quit thinking I was bullet proof over 25 years ago.

Yes, I've sailed in 40 knots of wind on a cat, and in over 60 knots on a leaner (monohull) 250 miles off shore, but not by choice. If you have a boat, whether it is a dingy or a ocean going vessel, you will someday get caught in severe weather -- that is one thing. But, to leave the beach or marina and sail into it is just plain and simple poor judgement, and irresponsible. I agree with Tracie and Acat144. You want a thrill in 35+ knots, get a windboard, or how about a kite board. Man you could really get some air in that wind!

Trust me, take care of yourself, you may live longer than you think and wished you had.

Hmmm Let's See:

Nacra 5.2 = $2-3K used in great condition, this was probably was not even close to that condition or value.

Potential Loss of a Million Dollar plus Coast Guard Chopper and Crew of 3-4 rescuing a couple of Stupid Thrill Seekers, well it Ain't Priceless and to say that's what we pay them for, well that's just a Crazy to Say.
The predicted Weather conditions were talked about all over the news up here prior to that day, even most of the Windsurfers packed it in that day, and they sail IN the Bay, not on the Oceanfront.

As Bob Hodges Said, "Stupid Stupid Stupid" any way you spell it. Those folks were one step away from the 2003 Darwin Awards

BTW 200 feet off the Beach is Still the Breakers in those conditions on the North End, so that idea needs rethinking.

One of the Coastie's mottos is "you have to go, but you don't have to come back" - I'd feel bad if anything happened to a CG crew while trying to pull my stupid butt out of the water for something I could have prevented. It also costs money to fly, and yes they budget for going out to get people, but every time extra is more spent.

I think sometimes we get cavalier about doing things just because we believe there's a rescue just a radio call away. I think there should be more overall pride in not needing to call for help.

In all of this the risky part to me is that it was an offshore blow, meaning that you're guaranteed to blown away from shore in a wreck.

All of us being sailors understand the idea of pushing the envelope in one way or another. Each persons envelope is in a different spot for different reasons and we all have our own ideas on how to approach it. Chuck Yeager and Neil Armstrong may not be who they are today had they not found limits that needed breaking. Wheather these sailors were out of their mind or curious to where their limits were, they learned a lesson. Yes they learned it the hard way, but is there really any other way to learn? Stupid would be without life jackets, cell phone and flares. So they obviously had an idea what they were getting themselves into. I raise my glass to those sailors. They wanted to know something, planed for the worst and survived. Risk is what you make it. There is calculated risk (capsizing, breaking something, storms) and there is uncalculated risk (crap you thought would never happen). But to a coast guard pilot and crew they are all the same needing the same attention. So if you're worried about the CG personal, then you should sell your boat and take up knitting because you never know when you might need them to put there lives on the line for you. You all have valid points, but they are your points tailored to your ideas, morales and abilities. Whats important is that you each understand your own limits and abilities in every aspect of sailing. Sailing is fun yes, but it doesn't mean it's not risky even on the calmest days.

Back to the original question...has anyone seen or heard about their boat?

Actually, having broken the boards in that kind of wind was
probably a BLESSING, as you don't want the boards in that kind
of wind to absorb the shock value of each gust, and stay upright.
(remember wind pressure increases to the second power)

As to value of sailing to Windward in 35-40 winds, it is futile.
Once you bear off one or two degrees to much, it is instant capsize.
You can carefully feather your way, just to stay UPRIGHT with very
little forward progress. But if you bear off a fraction to much you are over.
Not to mention a slight wind shift will be instant capsize.

As for experience sailors? I doubt it, as VMG is very close to nil in
40 knots wind with no reef. If they were reefed I would say experienced.

Perhaps, one of the forum's nautical engineers would like to show mathematically
the wind drag on the boat/sail, and lack of sufficient righting moment (no reef)
to keep head way, results in a extremely poor VMG.

I'm with crowd that says these guys were clueless.

I have to say I agree with Tracie on this one.
Maughan17, Have you ever sailed in 35+ knots? Not gusting to 35 but 35 true(gusts here on the Outer Banks were over 50 easy that day). I have done it numerous times even had a gust of 60+ kn(small waterspout/Worrell 2002)hit my I-20, sent me butt over teakettle, but I can honestly say I never pushed off into those conditions for fun. Each time was during a race(not that racings not fun) in which you didn't have much choice short of withdrawing from the entire event.With sponsors and a large finacial investment that's not much of a choice.
If you ever plan to go out in snot like that and consider the Coast Guard or an epirb as an OPTION ,you just shouldn't go out. Calling the Coast Guard is not like calling a cab.
Not to mention a 5.2 is a little small for that. Your pretty much guarateed a few good flips and the offshore direction makes that a probable suicide.
Tough on boat parts too.

Just something to think about,
Todd A. Hart
Team Cat Fever
p.s. For the waterproof radio, try putting it in a waterproof radio bag. I've had the same radio for 4 Worrell 1000s,1 Tybee 500, and a dozen and a half other distance races.

Todd, that is a good point you brought up about the pressure to leave the beach in a race when you would never do it just for fun.

Today I was able to interview one of the two sailors on the NACRA. Hopefully the details of the story will clear up some of the speculation. Although I doubt it will change the mind of anyone willing to state an opinion without hearing the facts first.
[color:"red"]
Catamaran Sailors Rescued off Virginia Beach [/color]

Mary, the one time I intentionally sailed my cat in winds over 30 knots was at Navarre Beach during the Juanas Good Times, I had driven 500 miles and there was no way I was staying on the beach. But that is such a sheltered area it doesn't really compare to sailing in high winds in the open ocean, or even the gulf. High winds and Good Times

While this story has plenty of first-hand information, it is definitely from the perspective of the "adventurous" souls who went out sailing.
Damon, what's the likelihood of getting an interview from the perspective of the Coast Guard personnel? Any possibility of interviewing them?

Yes, I'm working on that. I wanted to get the details of the coasties involved, including the name of the rescue diver if possible. I called the Portsmouth station but I have to call back tommorrow and go through the right channels to get a statement.

The facts?
Yes, the fact that two sailors who “Do this all the time”, went out in conditions that they thought they could handle but wound up in such a drastic turn of events that they needed to be plucked out of the sea by Coasties.
I think it sums it up perfectly.
It doesn’t matter how much experience you have, or how many times you’ve been in extreme conditions.
Weather and sea states can change in seconds.
There are no heroics in being rescued by the Coast Guard.

Tracie

With the risk of making more enemies than friends on here, and pissing off people I hold in high regard, I wont take the time to respond to all this. All I can say is this:

A) Yes I have sailed in 30 knots sustained in the Wrightsville Beach Channel, within visual distance of the coastie station. If you've ever been through there, you know that its not the most forgiving piece of aqua-state. 35+ knots? I don't think so, but then again, I don't trust my rig in that kind of wind.

B) I don't particularly have issue with these guys going out in the first place. I agree they should have had better preparations, like a stobe, and perhaps a dye pack or a floating ribbon. If you place that much stock in a VHF, then I'd bring one of those too. I do, but thankfully have never had to use it.

C) If it costs so much for the heli to just "leave the ground" then I guess they should never use it. Much less fly it up and down the beach on a perfecly blue skied summer day like they do all the time.

Let's put this into perspective:

Remember the editor and a group that went offshore on a Hobie 18 (was that Texas?)? If I remember correctly, no lifejackets (not to mention other safety equipment), and they couldn't even right their boat? They were lucky that they eventually drifted to shore....now that's stupid and THAT gives catamarans a bad reputation.

Yeah, these guys shouldn't have gone out...I wouldn't have. Perhaps the offshore wind blowing the breakers flat gave them a false sense of security - I can see how I might be lulled by that. However, I think their error in judgement is less in magnitude than in the previous example - at least they had a clue.

Hmmm, which is worse: to be ignorant because you did not know enough to know better; or to be stupid because you DID know enough to know better?

As for the comment about how our boats aren't designed for this kind of wind...

I hope you've never sped in your car over the posted speed limit.

The roads "aren't designed" for that kind of speed.

See, had they been out in a boardless boat we may not be having this discussion.

Viva le G-Cat

I'd say that in those conditions I would definately want more than a cell phone and a pack of flares. An EPIRB (or better yet, GPIRB) would have been a much better idea! Along with some food and water in a water-tight bag.

My friend often sailed his Prindle 18 in heavy-weather conditions- he didn't want to leave the beach if he couldn't fly a hull. One day he went out with two girls on his boat in a stiff blow (20s). He capsized during a tack, as the boat went up a wave, both girls (wearing thongs, and having applied sunscreen to their bottoms) slid to the back of the boat. The wind caught the trampoline and it flipped over backwards, then settled to the normal capsize position. The girls grabbed ahold of the stern of the boat so it couldn't swing into the wind and it turned turtle. Despite all their efforts, the three of them could not bring it out of this position. The water was just under 30' deep, and the mast pounded into the bottom during each wave trough. The mast eventually snapped and they were left to drifting in off-shore winds. He unpinned the shrounds and pulled what he could to the surface, managing to salvage the jib. They had only two life-jackets, which the girls wore, and wrapped themselves up in the jib to keep out of the wind and share body-heat. None of them had told anyone they were going out sailing, and two days later a police officer noticed that his car and trailer had not moved since the day of the storm, and called the Coast Guard. They found them later that day, 22 miles offshore, and plucked them out of the sea.

He must have been in his mid-late 30s when this happened, and had been sailing since he was 14 years old. He carried insurance on his boat and used it to buy a P-19 which he sails to this day, albeit more conservatively and with a cooler/bag containing plenty of water, juice, and snacks (crackers and such). He told me the most amazing thing about his ordeal was the beauty of the sky at night- he never knew you could see so many stars.

I'm not going to berate these guys for making a poor decision. I believe they realize their mistake at this point.

One thing I have noticed is that in high wind the 5.2 boards seems to snap. I've seen this now a couple of times. I don't know if it's related to the age of the boards or not.

I've also made some poor choices along with many others. I recall a Steeplechase that I pushed off with an offshore breeze and didn't realize the velocity or the danger. Many others pushed off that day and ended up scattered all over the coast broken and battered. I also had to call the Coast Guard that day to save a sailor that had become seperated from his boat. I ended up beaching my boat and heading out in a fishing boat to rescue that sailor.

I think these guys biggest mistake was expecting someone to rescue them. I'm a firm believer that any sailor should go out with the tools to rescue themselves. If they had considered that they were the only ones responsible to rescue themselves they might not have left shore that day.

Keep One Hull Flying,
Mike Hill
H20 #907