| Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Dazz]
#272096 05/01/14 05:51 PM 05/01/14 05:51 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,119 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
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Posts: 4,119 Northfield Mn | Interesting concept.
What about that combined with a shallow well that your foot went into? Like an inch or less deep?
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Dazz]
#272097 05/01/14 06:35 PM 05/01/14 06:35 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Thanks, but I'll stick with the footstraps, tensioned as suggested, that have already worked for me for close to 10,000 miles of ocean racing. If you guys want to re-invent the wheel feel free. The chance of hurting yourself pitchpoling while trying to use a unproven device are way greater than getting hurt with what everyone has been using for a decade and a half.Just adjust the things right and it's not an issue.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: brucat]
#272098 05/01/14 07:49 PM 05/01/14 07:49 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Posts: 3,969 | Tony, thanks for posting that, those look like a great option!
Ruling vs. interpretation is an interesting question.
The RRS provides a process which could be circular, depending upon who the measurer is.
RRS 43.1(c) and 78.3 require the measurer to decide if an equipment rule is broken, and if so, to report that to the RC.
RRS 60.2 requires the RC to file a protest if it receives such a report.
RRS 64.3(b) says that if the PC is in doubt about the meaning of a class rule, it shall ask the relevant authority for an interpretation, which the PC is then bound to follow when deciding the protest.
RRS 65.3 requires that if any PC penalizes a boat over a measurement rule [with or without 64.3(b) coming into play], it must report that back to the measurement authority.
Of course, RRS 62.1(a) allows a sailor to file for redress based on the actions of RC, PC and/or measurer; and unless otherwise prohibited, can also appeal any ruling.
So, for all practical purposes, unless the measurer is the class authority, his word ("ruling" interpretation or decision) is most definitely not final.
If he is the class authority, there might be some relief if the PC decides that the measurer is clearly mistaken, but I don't know if there's precedence for this.
EDIT: ERS is not a rule unless invoked by one of the docs listed under the definition of "rule" (NOR, SIs, class rules, Rx, ISAF Regs). The F18 class rules refer to ERS, but neither the A-Class nor the Hobie class rules do so. I'm not sure why not, as this would seem to be a great help for standardization for sailors, measurers and PCs...
Mike Thoughts on this, anyone? Mike | | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#272110 05/02/14 07:06 AM 05/02/14 07:06 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Thanks, but I'll stick with the footstraps, tensioned as suggested, that have already worked for me for close to 10,000 miles of ocean racing. If you guys want to re-invent the wheel feel free. The chance of hurting yourself pitchpoling while trying to use a unproven device are way greater than getting hurt with what everyone has been using for a decade and a half.Just adjust the things right and it's not an issue. You sound like the guy that said the wheel was crap and would never pan out. And, "fire"? you'll just burn yourself....heeeeh.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Jake]
#272112 05/02/14 07:36 AM 05/02/14 07:36 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Thanks, but I'll stick with the footstraps, tensioned as suggested, that have already worked for me for close to 10,000 miles of ocean racing. If you guys want to re-invent the wheel feel free. The chance of hurting yourself pitchpoling while trying to use a unproven device are way greater than getting hurt with what everyone has been using for a decade and a half.Just adjust the things right and it's not an issue. You sound like the guy that said the wheel was crap and would never pan out. And, "fire"? you'll just burn yourself....heeeeh. What was that guys name again? Please put all of that "ground breaking stuff" on your boat, especially the next time we're racing against each other.I expect to see skyhooks on your boat the next time I see it. What a great place this forum is where real life experience counts for nothing and an engineer or keyboard sailor's guess is inscribed in stone, especially if they have a high post count, 'cause ,Hey, we all know that's what really matters.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#272120 05/02/14 10:09 AM 05/02/14 10:09 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Thanks, but I'll stick with the footstraps, tensioned as suggested, that have already worked for me for close to 10,000 miles of ocean racing. If you guys want to re-invent the wheel feel free. The chance of hurting yourself pitchpoling while trying to use a unproven device are way greater than getting hurt with what everyone has been using for a decade and a half.Just adjust the things right and it's not an issue. You sound like the guy that said the wheel was crap and would never pan out. And, "fire"? you'll just burn yourself....heeeeh. What was that guys name again? Please put all of that "ground breaking stuff" on your boat, especially the next time we're racing against each other.I expect to see skyhooks on your boat the next time I see it. What a great place this forum is where real life experience counts for nothing and an engineer or keyboard sailor's guess is inscribed in stone, especially if they have a high post count, 'cause ,Hey, we all know that's what really matters. I don't know if it would ever work but it looks like an interesting thing to try. I probably won't have the time to ever put it together but I have a design in my head that will very likely work well and addresses all the concerns raised here. This is how new things come about - you try them and try to make them better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it takes a lot of refinement, sometimes it fails. Ever see Randy Smyth's scissors? America's cup on foils? It's not like this affects you in any way at all - good god man, why are you so angry and hateful? (ps, and I'm actually a pretty good designer and have affected the delivery and handling of products you touch and drink every day)
Jake Kohl | | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#272122 05/02/14 10:13 AM 05/02/14 10:13 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W Todd_Sails
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Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W | I think the problem in the video is that the crew lost control of the spinsheet while getting got by a wave. Getting your back foot out of the strap will be impossible if your front foot loses contact with the hull, no matter how tight or loose the straps are. Just bad luck really. Some kitesurfboards use so called "skyhooks", it's like a hook where you can put your toes under to lift the board out of the water, could work on cats as well. That is interesting...it would do mostly the same thing and be safer. It would also not require part of the foot strap to be bolted to the back of the hull. How will this keep your foot from getting washed off the hull side. That's all a footstrap is supposed to do anyway. What about keeping you at the rear/footstrap when the bow stuffs and the boat decelerates, sending you up to 'check out the jib'? IMHO, the footstrap is WAY more important to actually keep you back there for that.
F-18 Infusion #626- SOLD it!
'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
| | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Jake]
#272123 05/02/14 10:17 AM 05/02/14 10:17 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Thanks, but I'll stick with the footstraps, tensioned as suggested, that have already worked for me for close to 10,000 miles of ocean racing. If you guys want to re-invent the wheel feel free. The chance of hurting yourself pitchpoling while trying to use a unproven device are way greater than getting hurt with what everyone has been using for a decade and a half.Just adjust the things right and it's not an issue. You sound like the guy that said the wheel was crap and would never pan out. And, "fire"? you'll just burn yourself....heeeeh. What was that guys name again? Please put all of that "ground breaking stuff" on your boat, especially the next time we're racing against each other.I expect to see skyhooks on your boat the next time I see it. What a great place this forum is where real life experience counts for nothing and an engineer or keyboard sailor's guess is inscribed in stone, especially if they have a high post count, 'cause ,Hey, we all know that's what really matters. I don't know if it would ever work but it looks like an interesting thing to try. I probably won't have the time to ever put it together but I have a design in my head that will very likely work well and addresses all the concerns raised here. This is how new things come about - you try them and try to make them better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it takes a lot of refinement, sometimes it fails. Ever see Randy Smyth's scissors? America's cup on foils? It's not like this affects you in any way at all - good god man, why are you so angry and hateful? (ps, and I'm actually a pretty good designer and have affected the delivery and handling of products you touch and drink every day) I love how you sling an insult "you sound like.." and when someone responds in kind they are angry and hateful. Like I told Tad you raised your hand, don't get all butthurt when you get called on. You wanted to play...and that's all it is. I'm actually a pretty good designer and have affected the delivery and handling of products you touch and drink every day) And humble too. Well, this certainly makes you more than qualified to design footstraps for a sailboat, get on it or you'll be the new Doug lord in no time.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#272127 05/02/14 11:02 AM 05/02/14 11:02 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | I would second the comment about the footstrap holding my back foot when the boat decelerates rapidly. The chicken lines work better, but sometimes it's not practical to rig them (for buoy racing, as an example)
I have been washed out of the back strap once or twice, but managed to stay with the boat using the mainsheet/spinsheet (sometimes it wasn't pretty, but worked).
Maybe a combination approach? Traditional strap at transom to keep you getting lurched forward, and some version of the skyhook thingy near the beam to help you from getting washed off the back?
Or maybe just velcro shoes?
Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 05/02/14 11:03 AM.
Jay
| | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#272130 05/02/14 11:46 AM 05/02/14 11:46 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I love how you sling an insult "you sound like.." and when someone responds in part they are angry and hateful. Like I told Tad you raised your hand, don't get all butthurt when you get called on. You wanted to play...and that's all it is. I'm actually a pretty good designer and have affected the delivery and handling of products you touch and drink every day) And humble too. Well, this certainly makes you more than qualified to design footstraps for a sailboat, get on it or you'll be the new Doug lord in no time. "You sound like someone that said the wheel was a bad idea" while you are actually being negative and scorning new ideas, isn't exactly the same thing as calling you an ****. It was intended as a fun way to illustrate the fact that you were being negative on something that might prove out to be a worthwhile endeavor. Your negativity served no purpose. You don't have to buy it, believe in it, or hear anything about it. I'm sorry if I offended you.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#272145 05/02/14 06:29 PM 05/02/14 06:29 PM |
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 858 Victoria Australia Pirate
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Posts: 858 Victoria Australia | ..... Or maybe just velcro shoes? ..... Your fixing the problem at the wrong end.... the issue is the waves we encounter, it can cause the boat to suddenly stop and thus sending us forward until we slam into the side shrouds or we actually are struck by the wave sending us off the back of the boat so..... we either get rid of the waves (not so easy) or we fit a rudder-blade to our trap jackets (just below the shoulder blades) and that rudder must have winglets as the wave strikes us the blade will keep us straight and the winglets will lift us clear of the water its all about winglets I tell ya Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips
Kingy started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245 & now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740 | | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Dazz]
#272148 05/02/14 07:32 PM 05/02/14 07:32 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W Todd_Sails
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Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W | MOst all of us have used Chicken lines also, but
In the GT300, I think the tybe also;
Chris Green had a rig for his crew;
The was a line from the front and rear crossbar that the crew would pull tight and put into a jam cleat- one on each side- so it held him from going forward or backwards. Seemed to work
F-18 Infusion #626- SOLD it!
'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
| | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: Tony_F18]
#272174 05/05/14 02:56 AM 05/05/14 02:56 AM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 976 France pepin
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Posts: 976 France | I think the problem in the video is that the crew lost control of the spinsheet while getting got by a wave. Getting your back foot out of the strap will be impossible if your front foot loses contact with the hull, no matter how tight or loose the straps are. Just bad luck really. Some kitesurfboards use so called "skyhooks", it's like a hook where you can put your toes under to lift the board out of the water, could work on cats as well. Are those strong enough? I imagine those were designed to lift a board weighting 3 kgs out of the water, not to stop a 95kgs man from flying forward… | | | Re: footstraps can hurt!
[Re: pepin]
#272175 05/05/14 04:09 AM 05/05/14 04:09 AM |
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 524 Petten Netherlands northsea junkie
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Last edited by northsea junkie; 05/05/14 04:11 AM.
ronald RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)
hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?.. "huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
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