| Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race #272729 05/23/14 02:42 PM 05/23/14 02:42 PM |
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 490 catandahalf OP
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Posts: 490 | With its original roots being formed in 1850 (See this month's issue of Sailing World & Troy Gilbert's story) the annual Gulf Yachting Association Gulfport MS to Pensacola Race, is hosting a full multihull Division for beach catamarans (DPN) and trimarans (PHRF). This marks the first time in such a history catamarans have been welcomed. The NoR link is below. http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/regatta_uploads/8413/2014G2PNORPKG.pdfThis might fit in as a tune up for the Great Texas 300 or satisfy that need for offshore speed. The Multihull Council will be calling the rules and standards for safety and scoring. They can throw Great parties at Gulfport Yacht Club, and the award ceremony will be quite festive. One year we sold enough bushwackers to buy a center console powerboat for our junior program at PYC. The NoR features many of the safety requirements, and the MHC will be guiding us through this when Randy gets back from Hawaii. He is pushing for some of the Everglades Challengers, from the water tribe to attend. We will see if we can make those sailors happy and keep the Southern Yacht Club BoD from worry. Contact me with a private e-mail if you have questions. Bert Rice, Safety Committee Chairman (FWYC/PBYC) | | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: mikekrantz]
#272731 05/23/14 04:08 PM 05/23/14 04:08 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | interesting....but here we go again with the tether for multihull including while trapzeing. I am not a fan of the tether. To my knowledge, I don't know of a single instance where it has provided anyone an advantage. I feel that it is much more of an entanglement liability and serves to potentially keel-haul you if you fall overboard. I've been personally involved with an offshore capsize with a dangerous entanglement issue that was close to becoming life threatening. I just can't imagine any scenario that I would want to be tethered to the boat in sailing conditions.
Having one "on my person ready and available to be used", however, I think is smart - it could come in handy in all sorts of situations.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: Jake]
#272733 05/23/14 09:42 PM 05/23/14 09:42 PM |
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Posts: 490 | Jake and all,
I have always used a harness and a strap to the appropriate attachment point on the boat, which varies. Nowdays the length is the study point for planers and soon to foil guys. I have not been in a serious offshore race, since the seventies, and not found the time to break out the harness line and hook on if the need be.
I told Bob Hodges the secret lies in the line, "trapeze wires may be synthetic."... means modern tethers may be much lighter and stronger than the old style Forespars with the heavy shackles and strapping - very bulky to wear on deck, but I was always glad to have it when changing sails during a storm at night, offshore.
The jury is out on this until Randy, a member of our safety committee, returns from Hawaii. He will know the latest and wisest course to take.
I have never used a tether on a catamaran because I firmly held the sheets, but with synthetics and safe knives - why not? We just need to find the magic length for the trimarans and catamarans. Tea bagging at night ain't fun, but swimming alone with a PFD, tracking device, and strobe may not be preferred as well. Our boats do not sink, so I say we stay hooked in when necessary, and stow the tether when not in use. Just have one on!!! I used my foul weather gear pockets to hide mine from my feet and hands.
The safety committee will issue an announcement after Randy gets back. | | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: catandahalf]
#272737 05/24/14 06:51 AM 05/24/14 06:51 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: jaybird1111]
#272943 05/31/14 02:38 PM 05/31/14 02:38 PM |
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Posts: 490 | I finally spoke with Randy this morning at FWYC where he is putting on a trimaran racing clinic. We both agreed the safety recommendations are sound, and the OA from Southern Yacht Club is hoping multihulls return for another go.
The race can last all night on a trimaran, but Gene Wallet owns the unofficial record (almost forty years old) on a Pacific catamaran. If I remember the boat even flew a kite. He finished before dawn, I believe.
I meant to add that our next offshore racing adventure will be the RtI in September, and we are shooting for a division of small tris and an "Everglades Challenge" - style, course format.
Last edited by catandahalf; 05/31/14 02:42 PM.
| | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: David Ingram]
#272996 06/03/14 09:57 AM 06/03/14 09:57 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team. Sailing is not football... it's not a game about what you can get away with under the nose of the official... its not about bending the rules.... Agree with the rules or don't race... You follow the rules... or you don't race sailboats... It should never be about enforcing the rules.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#272999 06/03/14 11:17 AM 06/03/14 11:17 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team. Sailing is not football... it's not a game about what you can get away with under the nose of the official... its not about bending the rules.... Agree with the rules or don't race... You follow the rules... or you don't race sailboats... It should never be about enforcing the rules. Point made. I will not be attending ANY regatta where a rule made up by an uneducated OA has the potental to reduce my safety at sea. Although it could be a nice payday for my widow and her new husband. How did your first husband die Ms. Kathy... He got tangled in his mandated teather and drown and it worked out for Pedro and I and nicely. In an effort for an OA to reduce their liability they end up exposing themselves further. Still seems like saftey at sea issues should be guidelines not rules. Right up there with it's your decision and your decision only if you push off the beach or not.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: David Ingram]
#273000 06/03/14 11:59 AM 06/03/14 11:59 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team. Sailing is not football... it's not a game about what you can get away with under the nose of the official... its not about bending the rules.... Agree with the rules or don't race... You follow the rules... or you don't race sailboats... It should never be about enforcing the rules. Point made. I will not be attending ANY regatta where a rule made up by an uneducated OA has the potental to reduce my safety at sea. Although it could be a nice payday for my widow and her new husband. How did your first husband die Ms. Kathy... He got tangled in his mandated teather and drown. It worked out for me and Pedro nicely. In an effort for an OA to reduce their liability they end up exposing themselves further. Still seems like saftey at see issues should be guidelinds not rules. Right up there with it's your decision and your decision only if you push off the beach or not. +1 Having myself tethered to the boat (small, extremely maneuverable multihull) can most definitely be a liability. I won't race with one attached. Have you ever had your sailing buddy say to you "don't let me die, dude" as he's being dragged under water tangled up in a turtling boat? I have and we both narrowly avoided the worst [censored] awful situation (particularly him). You'll never convince me to purposely clip myself into a boat that could easily end up flipping, twisting, rolling, and upside down. No way. And as Dave pointed out - for the OA to require it is putting them in a potentially tough spot too. Require things that aren't potential liabilities - EPIRBs, VHFs, float plans, charts, flares, etc. If you feel the need to mention them, advise/suggest things that carry some liability with them. Requiring a personal tether on a boat that is more stable upside down that it is right side up is a gigantic liability.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: catandahalf]
#273004 06/03/14 12:47 PM 06/03/14 12:47 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Posts: 3,969 | Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.
Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.
Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...
Mike | | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: brucat]
#273005 06/03/14 01:24 PM 06/03/14 01:24 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.
Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.
Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...
Mike Mike, Saying you've seen the tether requirement before and it was supported by very experienced sailors (in your opinion btw) doesn't really make as strong a point as you think it does. Just because someone else does or says something won't change my position unless they have a very compelling argument. I have an EPIRB on my person (my crew does too) I'm NOT tieing myself to the boat. If that's a rule then so be it, I have other options. And for f!@k sake take a position! The middle of the road is completely uninteresting. Even though Mark annoys the piss out of me he almost never bores me. When he channels Wouter is when he bores me.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: brucat]
#273006 06/03/14 01:27 PM 06/03/14 01:27 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.
Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.
Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...
Mike "Experienced" doesn't necessarily equal "smart". I get PFDs. The risk and severity of the issue that the extra buoyancy could trap me under something on the boat is pretty small compared to the likely hood I would not be able to tread water for the length of time I might need before being rescued. The level of risk I carry with getting separated from the boat (while I have a PFD, EPIRB, and VFD on me) is much lower than the risk of the entanglement that could kill me if the boat flips, rolls, and turtles. That one gives me about 1 minute, and my buddy an additional 3 or 4 assuming he can administer CPR on an upside down catamaran, to figure out how I survive. On the other hand, if I got separated from the boat with the typical gear I wear, I've probably got 48 hours or more (since I carry water in my PFD too) to figure something out. If nothing else, I'll take the option with extra time. Now, I do believe in CARRYING a tether that is tied to me. You never know when being able to throw 20 feet of line to something might come in really handy...just not with both ends clipped in with the intent to keep me with the boat.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race
[Re: David Ingram]
#273012 06/03/14 04:18 PM 06/03/14 04:18 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.
Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.
Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...
Mike Mike, Saying you've seen the tether requirement before and it was supported by very experienced sailors (in your opinion btw) doesn't really make as strong a point as you think it does. Just because someone else does or says something won't change my position unless they have a very compelling argument. I have an EPIRB on my person (my crew does too) I'm NOT tieing myself to the boat. If that's a rule then so be it, I have other options. And for f!@k sake take a position! The middle of the road is completely uninteresting. Even though Mark annoys the piss out of me he almost never bores me. When he channels Wouter is when he bores me. I WAS one of those "really old New England 100 days" sailors. They didn't make you tie yourself to the boat, you had to have the means to do it if you wanted to, lots of races do that. They also made you carry an anchor which generally did more harm to your boat in waves than good if you tried to use it in the rocks. The GT300 likes you tied to the boat also as well as leaving your VHF on all the time , so when you really need it ,it's dead. Not me, ain't doing it. I as well have been tangled under a turtled boat and will do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen again. OAs don't want to hear experiences, they just want liability mitigation, which they aren't going to get by increasing risk with mandates.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
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