| Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: dr5e14w]
#282399 04/11/16 12:52 PM 04/11/16 12:52 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake OP
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | According to a DNA employee posting over at Sailing Anarchy ( LINK ), the price will be around 21,750 Euros which is about $24,800 USD right now with a boat that is "ready to sail" including all lines, etc. I find that a little hard to believe that it will be that affordable but that's what he said. I'm pretty sure the last iteration of the DNA cost that for a platform without a mast or sails.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: dr5e14w]
#282401 04/11/16 02:09 PM 04/11/16 02:09 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | what's with the stealth fighter front beam? Does foiling really impact significantly enough to run aerodynamic studies on the beam? I understand the trampoline part... just not the beam...
Jay
| | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: dr5e14w]
#282402 04/11/16 02:11 PM 04/11/16 02:11 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake OP
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I thought it said for a platform only no mast or sail? Hmmm. Possibly. He said: What is quite different is our mission to make sailors being able to sail this boat within 30 minutes after delivery. It is completely ready-to-sail, everything related to a platform is included. All hardware and lines have been installed and checked too, so what could typically take days and also involve more costs for lines, cleats and your own time; all gone. The same as when buying a new car. We have a lengthy checklist prior to shipping and only release the platform if all boxes are ticked. I suppose "ready to sail" was tempered by "everything related to a platform is included"...only after you add a mast, boom, rigging, and sail.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#282403 04/11/16 02:15 PM 04/11/16 02:15 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake OP
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | what's with the stealth fighter front beam? Does foiling really impact significantly enough to run aerodynamic studies on the beam? I understand the trampoline part... just not the beam... I would think so. The wind as a power source is fixed so anything you can eek out of it would be significant at the pointy end of the fleet. In wild guess mode, I'm guessing they might see as much as a 5% bump in aero efficiency with the boat at 25 knots. Foiling upwind/cracked reaching is probably seeing close to 30 knots across the deck.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Jake]
#282404 04/11/16 02:49 PM 04/11/16 02:49 PM |
Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 382 SE MI / NE IN rehmbo
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Posts: 382 SE MI / NE IN | First off - way cool boat. I want one. Now! Just need to rob a bank. On the importance of drag reduction, I think its a bigger deal than we think. Check the simplified biking drag calculator halfway down the page here: https://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/aerodynamics1.html20mph apparent wind yields 10.5N drag = ~2.4lbF (yes, dirty units) 30mph apparent wind yields 23.7N drag = ~5.3lbF This is for a cyclist + bike. I know its apples/oranges for us, but still meaningful From the article: "On a flat road, aerodynamic drag is by far the greatest barrier to a cyclist's speed, accounting for 70 to 90 percent of the resistance felt when pedaling." On a % basis, the aero beam figures might be small compared with all the other sources of drag. But all things being equal on an absolute basis over a 40min race, it adds up. Maybe we should start wearing skin-suits?
Last edited by rehmbo; 04/11/16 02:59 PM.
| | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Jake]
#282407 04/11/16 04:35 PM 04/11/16 04:35 PM |
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 54 dr5e14w
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Posts: 54 | I thought it said for a platform only no mast or sail? Hmmm. Possibly. He said: What is quite different is our mission to make sailors being able to sail this boat within 30 minutes after delivery. It is completely ready-to-sail, everything related to a platform is included. All hardware and lines have been installed and checked too, so what could typically take days and also involve more costs for lines, cleats and your own time; all gone. The same as when buying a new car. We have a lengthy checklist prior to shipping and only release the platform if all boxes are ticked. I suppose "ready to sail" was tempered by "everything related to a platform is included"...only after you add a mast, boom, rigging, and sail. That's how I interpreted it. But still not too bad considering the platform was close to that price before if I remember correctly. | | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Jake]
#282408 04/11/16 05:37 PM 04/11/16 05:37 PM | MN3
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Unregistered | yea but what happens when you bury the bows down to the front beam. does that drive you under? And Wow is that sexy! what's with the stealth fighter front beam? Does foiling really impact significantly enough to run aerodynamic studies on the beam? I understand the trampoline part... just not the beam... I would think so. The wind as a power source is fixed so anything you can eek out of it would be significant at the pointy end of the fleet. In wild guess mode, I'm guessing they might see as much as a 5% bump in aero efficiency with the boat at 25 knots. Foiling upwind/cracked reaching is probably seeing close to 30 knots across the deck.
Last edited by MN3; 04/11/16 05:38 PM.
| | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: ]
#282412 04/12/16 08:04 AM 04/12/16 08:04 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | yea but what happens when you bury the bows down to the front beam. does that drive you under?
Maybe. But you certainly won't appear on anyone's radar display with that carbon shape... So good luck seeing your nose-dive on radar/video
Jay
| | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#282416 04/12/16 08:43 AM 04/12/16 08:43 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake OP
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I'm a little awestruck at how this F1 DNA will probably redefine what a "modern catamaran" will be in the near future. They put a lot of thought into this boat. While I'm still not sold that foiling is everything it's cracked up to be (particularly on inland lakes), boats like this make it start to really look purposeful. The fact that Mischa was foiling this thing upwind and tacking through 105 degrees is impressive.
I bet the mast will see the next development step with a different profile. Although bend characteristics have changed quite a bit, the standard a-cat mast configuration has been relatively unchanged for several decades and it just looks "old" when it sits atop this boat.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Jake]
#282428 04/12/16 11:42 AM 04/12/16 11:42 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | JC mentioned in his podcast about the benefit lower COE when foiling. perhaps this might indeed change mast/sail/wing design as well?
Jay
| | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Jake]
#282434 04/12/16 09:07 PM 04/12/16 09:07 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,119 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
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Posts: 4,119 Northfield Mn | I've been wondering if the stability of foiling means a wing mast would pay now?
I want one. badly.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#282435 04/13/16 09:12 AM 04/13/16 09:12 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake OP
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | found a price list. Fully equipped in clear carbon with foil covers, boat yard cover, lycra trailering cover, mast, boom, standing riggin/trap, sail (decksweeper), etc....30.690 Euros ($35,000 USD) before delivery / taxes.
If you want it painted a color, it's an extra $1,100.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#282436 04/13/16 09:15 AM 04/13/16 09:15 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake OP
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I've been wondering if the stability of foiling means a wing mast would pay now?
That's kinda what I was thinking about the mast development. Maybe not a full-on wing sail (weight) but a significantly larger (possibly structured) mast with a smaller fabric sail behind it. ...Something somewhat between both worlds.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat
[Re: Jake]
#282437 04/13/16 09:35 AM 04/13/16 09:35 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | Ben Hall talked about his in JCs podcast, too. Apparently with a few updates it would be ideal.
Jay
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