Wouter

Reffering to your post replying to Edmund

Could you please expain to me what is ment by the following:

Local class head.
Do you mean the head of the Hobie class or the f16 class ?

And dose it mean, one country could grandfather a class and another country dose not ?
Or dose it mean, that once a country has grandfathered a class, that class is granfathered worldwide ?

Look forward to your reply

Regards Tony Jenkins

>>Do you mean the head of the Hobie class or the f16 class ?

The head of the local F16 class of course.

>>And dose it mean, one country could grandfather a class and another country dose not ?

That is possible.

The only way to become universaly grandfathered is by a positive vote on it by all class members. This was done with regards to the Spitfire some time back.

You must see it this way. A local F16 class head may dispensate boats (within the limits of the grandfather rules, which are more strickt than you may realize at this time)) if he judges that to be in the interest of the Formula 16 class. These dispensations are reviewed yearly and are only valid in relation to OPEN Formula 16 class events in the area governed by this local head or that are organised by this local organsation.

Declared Closed Formula 16 events can only be entered by true Formula 16 boats. Example of the last would be a Worlds or a promo event liek the Dutch Coast Challenge. So there is no point in showing up to these events with a Prindle 16 for example.

To give an example; as the local class head for the Netherlands I will declare by far the most events to be open F16 class events. I see no point in disallowing somebody to race against F16's on an disadvantaged design like a Prindle 16 or Hobie 16. The more honour to the crew when their skill is sufficient to overcome their disadvantage. "First in wins"; that is the name of the game. You are free, within limits, to choose your (dueling) weapon. The grandfather rules prevents any dissimilar designs from participating. Read them. The Prindle 16 for example is allready Full F16 complinat and the Hobie 16 only breaches the overall length rule by 1 inch; in all other aspects it is full F16 compliant as well. Are we going to act small minded and disallow any Hobie 16 a shot at a spectacular stunt for this 1 inch long reason ? I say : a crate of beer to any Hobie 16 crew beating me to the line while sailing my Typhoon F16.

Basically the rule of thumb that I use as the local Netherlands class head is that Dutch F16's will race everybody and anybody on a "first in wins" basis and sails a catamaran of comparable dimensions as the F16's with an Texel and ISAF rating that is equal or slower to that of the F18/F16 class. This is in the interest of the Formula 16 class in the Netherlands as our growth is appearing to come from these dispensated boats and I want them to experience the F16's from up close. And I want to make it very clear to Dutch F16 sailors that speeds come from well developped sailing skills and not from who has the theoretical best F16 boat. Nothing spells that out as clearly as sailing against well a practiced Hobie 16 crew. I remember giving a few F18 crews a hurry up on the course on my Prindle 16 simply by getting my head out of the boat and focus on getting a good start and getting my laylines and tacks right. I think the Mozzies are doing some great stuff in Australia in this respect. Sailing F16's in my opinion is meeting the challenge in whatever (proportional) form it comes, not by only meeting the challenges that have been prefiltered by an excluding policy.

Are F16's great ? Than we must be prepared to allow others to put us to the test. It says something about our own believes if we are not willing to race Prindle 16's or Hobie 16's on a first in basis for example. And if somebody brings a 49 skiff than I'll race that one too. If I were to loose than it would be because of my inferiour sailing skills.

Other local class heads may decide differently for their area's.

Wouter

Hi Tony,

Glad you've placed an interest to my concerns.

I am fully supportive of Wouter's point to accept whoever wants to race amongs the F16s, of course all with in the "spirit of the Formula class". Matter of fact, that was what I wanted to hear when I posted that question to him.

Going even further along the lines of your 2nd question. My 2 cents is, it is difinitely a case to case basis when it comes to managing a class, any class for that matter. As long as the class is being well represented and its ideals are being promoted, I see no problem in sailing against other boats.

Which brings me to more questions to our Chairman, Mr Wouter;
1. Can one be a F16 country head and a F16 dealer at the same time?

2. After we've established that we will accept H16 in the races, can they be active members of the association in terms of governing the class? The F16 class that is. I think this will definitely concern my country since we have a predominant H16 fleet.

3. Would they be required to always carry spinnakers?



All the best
Edmund

To clearify the spirit of the class allow me to give a summary although this list is not exhaustive.

The spirit of the F16 class was born out a few realisations.

-1- Final course results are at minimim 10 times more dependent on sailor skill than on the platform used.

-2- A good deal of sailors install a mental limit to their speed potential by thinking point -1- isn't true

-3- Sailing is a spare-time leasure activity for 96 % of the sailing public. This holds true for active racers as well.

-4- A few main limits, governing drag and power, are effective to limit performance differences between boats of different make to less than 3 %.

-5- All other significant factors in overall performance (example : sail cut) can easily be transfered to designs of a
different make. Therefor these can NEVER constitude a continueing inequality that needs to be prevented by rules.

-6- Point -4- and -5- hook up with point -1- and thus sets up a framework of fair racing despite allowing many builders
and different designs participating in a loosely ruled class.

-7- Some limits may be required because of preception reasons rather than performance reasons. These are nevertheless
important rules to be observed otherwise the fanthom of point -2- rises.

-8- Allowing small spread-out improvements over time and modifying baot to personal preferences is important to allow the class to renew itself and stay attractive over a longer period of time. This does not hurt resale value,
see point -9- as shown by an Australian dinghy class and the Mosquito class whose resale value are rising as a result of renewment.

-9- Because of point -1- and point -3- ; aging and thus possibly inferiour designs are still adequate enough for 80 % of the serious racing public and 100 % of the more recreational public, especially novices. Meaning, putting the same crew, lacking in sufficient skills (point -1-) on the best available design will never significantly improve their results. In these cases the focus must be fully on improving their skills using what they got. Anything else is counterproductive (point -2-) or utterly useless (buying a new design).

-10- Because of point -3- and point -1- the Class will strive to cooperate with all other sailing classes and keep both the on-the-water as off-the-water attitudes both chevalrous and welcoming. Competitive spirits are good but only when securely within the limits of good taste.

The grandfather rule is, as I said, more restrictive than may be thought. See here the summary (not exhaustive)


5.1.1 The Formula 16 authority may give dispensations to boats that do not fully comply with the Formula 16 rules. These dispensations are limited in duration and are reviewed yearly. Boats that are dispensated do not become part of the Formula 16 class but of the Open Formula 16 class instead.

5.1.2 The Foundation boats Taipan 4.9 (with F16 spi) and Stealth (R) have the special status of "Formula 16 foundation boats"; meaning that, despite the fact that they are dispensated for their non compliance, they have become part of the (closed) Formula 16 class. Their status is permanent; althought it is lost when the boat in question is no longer compliant with their confirmed (class) setup as fixed on the date 1 januari 2002.

6.1 The head of a local Formula 16 class organisation may give dispensation (called grandfathering) to a particular design or class and allow them to become part of the Open Formula 16 class under the following conditions.

6.1.1 The design may not have hulls longer than 5,30 mtr.(17ft 4 inch.)

6.1.2 The design must have a rated jib sail area which is less than 4,25 sq.mtr. and more than 2,75 sq. mtr. (this rule does not apply to single handed setups)

6.1.3 Both the SCHRS (ISAF) and Texel rating of the design must be equal to or "slower" than the rating assigned to the Formula 16 class.

6.1.4 When grandfathered, the designs are allowed to race against fully compliant Formula 16 designs in declared "Open Formula 16" races.




To answer your questions Edmund.

>>1. Can one be a F16 country head and a F16 dealer at the same time?

Yes, but it will be a cord dancing act. As an official you are required to be fully supportive of all builders and dealors and you are fully expected to be impartial in your dealings as a class representative or when adressed in that role.

It becomes more of a tight rope act when the dealorship is of another brand than any of the three fully compliant F16 designs. Great care must be taken here to avoid any decisions or actions that can give the impression of partiallity. It can be done, it is done, but it requires a strong character and clearity in dealings with both customers and class related persons.



>>2. After we've established that we will accept H16 in the races, can they be active members of the association in terms of governing the class? The F16 class that is. I think this will definitely concern my country since we have a predominant H16 fleet.

The rule is 1 vote per full compliant F16 boat. The only full compliant designs at this time are Taipan F16, Stealth F16 and Blade F16 expanded with the foundation boats Taipan 4.9 + spi and Stealth and Stealth R. For this reason it is not possible for non full compliant (grandfathered) classes like the Hobie 16 owners to vote in F16 class issues.

Membership of the F16 class is simple at this time, no fees. Contribute in volunteer work what you can or what you think is appropriete and live by the spirit of the F16 class. Aim at building a great catamaran scene together. This does not in any way exclude members from other classes from actively supporting the F16 class by their voluntary efforts or vica versa. In principle this allows these volunteers to shape parts of the F16 class in a local sense.

It is in the interest of the F16 class to remain independent of another class with regard to decision making and policies. It is expected that when a clash of interests occurs that the person will choose between the two classes and vacate one of the two position thus ending the clash of interests. When acting as a respresentative of the F16 class it is fully expected that one acts in the full interest of the F16 class.


>>3. Would they be required to always carry spinnakers?

The only requirements in this sense that the F16 class makes are :

-1- Boats and crews must comply with all the F16 class rules and the spirit of the F16 class. (grandfathered boats must comply with the grandfather rules when the race is declared on open F16 race)

-2- First across the line wins.

These rules allow a boat to sail with the mainsail fitted upside down, with 5 people on board, no spi and with a bucket trailing behind the boats if that crews thinks they stand a better chance of beating the other boats across the line on elapsed time like this.

Therefor it is always allowed to race with "less" than the rules allow (or more when the rules state a minimum). Hence nobody is required to sail with a spinnaker. After all that crew is only putting themselfs at a disadvantage, if they are willing to accept than everything is okay. Flying a spi is however adviced. In the past we have had more sailors claiming that a spinnaker is not such a big advantage only to find out that it was. Exceptions are of course beam reaching drag races where the spi can not be pulled.


Wouter

Thanks Wouter

I have taken the time to read the rules on a number of occasions.
Your detailed summary, puts it much clearer.

As for the spirit of F16. Rest assured I have it.
The more the merrier I say.

I look forward to seeing a Alpha Omega, Taipans and Blade, or even a Stealth (if some one wants to import one)and Mosquito, or any thing else on the one starting line.

On the subject of you got to start somewhere.
I have been encouraged to sail a Taipan with a Spinnaker, single handed at the upcoming South West Rocks Regatta.

And on the subject of spirit.
Last Thursday on Tuggerah Lake a Mosquite, Blade and Taipan all sailed togeather.
Who were the winners ?
Well when ideas, theories and tips are shared openley It would be fair to say we were all winners.

Now that is the F16 spirit.

Regards TJ