If my memory is correct (then again?ugh) in the 70's and some of the 80's a DNF was scored as A9 below. Then in the late 80's to present, it changed to A4.2 below.

This change makes even less sense the fewer the races say a 3 race regatta. (where 1 point makes a difference)
i.e. Say 5 entries, on only 3 boats show up, a DNF under A4.2 is scored as 6 points vs A9 is scored as 4 points.

When did this change, occur? and why?
Should a boat who has not started (DNS) get the same score as a boat that did not finish (DNF)? (in a Regatta vs Series)?


DNF scored say late 80's - 90's onward to:

From 2001 - 2004 Appendix A:
A4.2 A boat that did not start, did not finish, retired after finishing or was
disqualified shall be scored points for the finishing place one more than the
number of boats entered in the series.


DNF as scored in 70' for regatta or series:

From 2001 - 2004 Appendix A:
A9 RACE SCORES IN A SERIES LONGER THAN A REGATTA
For a series that is held over a period of time longer than a regatta, a boat that
came to the starting area but did not start, did not finish, retired after finishing
or was disqualified shall be scored points for the finishing place one more than
the number of boats that came to the starting area. A boat that did not come to
the starting area shall be scored points for the finishing place one more than the
number of boats entered in the series.

I'm just guessing but the change in wording could have been due to the flexible nature of the phrase "boats entered in a series". Does that mean registered or that showed up at the event?

While I agree that starting a race but not finishing might deserve a little more merit than not starting at all, I think it's a tiny difference. The real truth is that neither boat accomplished the most important aspect of the race: the finish.

>Does that mean registered or that showed up at the event?<
In my case, it was the number of boats registered. This is another can of worms, for discussion, and needs to be clarified for those who go by the strict letter of the rules. You would think common sense would dictate the number who showed up at the Regatta.

It is a tiny difference with a few boats, but when you are looking for one point it's bigger.
In a large fleet the point difference could be huge, some may just go to the start/finnish line then retire to save on points.
If all things were equal in number of boats, why the difference between a series vs a regatta?
A three race regatta vs a 12 race regatta. How many races does it take to justify a series scoring method (13?). Or a series could be 3 races over 3 weekends.
I do not see why it is necessary to score it differently.
Regardless when did this change?

Dear Sail7seas - I believe that:

is for the following reasons - (at least one of the reasons that I understood):
It was for a time, fashionable if you will, to go out, cross the start line, hang out for a while and then retire. This was popular in extremely heavy air. That way you beat the boats that stayed on the beach when the rule was "number of starters plus 1"

They changed it to "number of entries plus 1" for safety reasons. Now there is no benefit to go out if you think you cannot finish the race.

... at least that’s my recollection of one of the reasons it changed.


Rico
Fleet 204 . Com

I agree with Rico and Jake and I like the change. You should NOT be given undo credit for taking a start and going in. You have competed against no one and accomplished next to nothing. Why should a competitor be recognized for that?

Do you think it's fair that the scoring between the last place finisher and someone that took a start and high tailed it to the beach is only a 1 point difference? That aint right, is it?

Dave

>I agree with Rico and Jake and I like the change. You should NOT be given undo credit for taking a start and going in. You have competed against no one and accomplished next to nothing. Why should a competitor be recognized for that?<


Lack of wind causes DNF also.
In my case, 1 race of 3, I did not meet the time limit, because the wind turned off. (and received number of registrants plus one) The intent of the DNF was for boat damage or safety/retire. Yes some abused it.

>Do you think it's fair that the scoring between the last place finisher and someone that took a start and high tailed it to the beach is only a 1 point difference? That aint right, is it?<

In a large fleet and long regatta (say 12 races) in light air, if half of 60 finish under the time limit, it is 60 plus one vs 31 points. Delta = 30 points difference, ouch.

HMMMM...being DNF due to falling short of the time limit does change things a little. However, isn't the time limit determined by a specific time after the 1st place boat finishes? Assuming that you were in a reasonably even fleet, I would understand the rulling. If you were racing a Hobie Wave against an Inter 20 that would certainly be less 'fair'...but racing a Wave against an I20 on Portsmouth could never really be fair anyway. What kind of fleet are you talking about?

Jake -
Most times the Sailing Instructions give a specified period of time for the "First" boat to finish to constitute a race. Only if they have a instruction that states "all other boats must finish within thirty minutes" or whatever time frame, then you must issue a DNF. You could also modify the Sailing Instructions to say "all "DNS" receive points equal to the number of boats registered + 1 and "DNF" to all the boats that started plus 1. That would solve the problem of a boat that broke down, or couldn't complete the course in time, and not get the same points as someone who stayed on the beach.

Paul Nardone

This rule came up at I20 nationals last year. They had a 30 minute requirement from the first boat to finish. We finished in 8th just inside of the 30 minutes because the wind had completely died. Another boat finished about 2 minutes later and was scored a 14. Not really fair to that boat. I think most race instructions should say something to the effect. All boats not finished within 30 minutes of the first boat to finish will be scored Number of finishers + 1. This would handle this situation.

The real reason for the change was because race committees with 60 boats on a line couldn't keep track of who started each race and who didn't show at all. I think the rule is fine the way it is if the change that I mentioned before is put into the sailing instructions.

Mike Hill
H20 #907

The race committee should have finished to boats on the course in that race.

If you came in 8th, that means that there were only 6 boats left.

That's just lame race management.

>The real reason for the change was because race committees with 60 boats on a line couldn't keep track of who started each race and who didn't show at all. <

As I recall the RC use to request in the sailing instructions, all 60 boats to pass by the starboard side of committee boat to be registered before each race. It took awhile for everyone to get to the starting area anyway, so not much time was lost.

I kind of like Deg204 response "They changed it to "number of entries plus 1" for safety reasons. Now there is no benefit to go out if you think you cannot finish the race."

I agree Matt it was lame race management. However not because they should have finished the other 6 on the course. They couldn't have done that because some were on opposite sides of the course and there was no way to give them places 9-14 correctly. I've never heard of a committee finishing boats on the course and giving them all 9's. They should have finished us at A mark but they were stuck finishing other boats so they couldn't move. Had they had another boat capable of taking finishes they should have done them at A mark. However I think by putting the rule I mentioned in the race instructions it would take away the chance of this happening again.

Mike Hill
H20 #907

"If" they had a mark boat at the last mark / gate before the finish, they should have been keeping an order of rounding sheets. Not too difficult in light air and 14 boats. Those could have been used to determine positions 9 - 14.

Given the alternative (everybody gets a 14), most people would take what they had at the last mark.

My guess is they didn't have that level of organization. Really lame at a national championship.

The RC did what they were supposed to do - anyone not finished within the time limit gets DNF. If they'd finished people on the course, they'd've been subject to protest. The way I remember it being worded was that they COULD finish folks on the course in the interest of getting in more races - not so that people not finishing within the time limit could have a lower score. And they weren't OBLIGATED to finish people on the course.

I agree with Mike that the SIs could be changed in the future to make it less of a hit if you can't get across the line in a dying breeze, but for that particular race, the RC acted properly and within the rules. SIs aren't flexible once you're on the water. Don't knock 'em. That's boat racin'.