I'm not familiar with this Boston Whaler product, but someone locally is selling one. Performance-wise, how does it compare to a hobie or nacra? I typically like to go out in 15-20 mph winds and fly the hull and make the boat hum.
Are they any less likely that the Hobie to pitchpole?
thanks,
Jon

great boat.

Jon,

The designer of the boat, Bill Roberts, frequents this forum and will certainly answer any specific questions you have in detail. There are a decent number of S17s out there but like most sail boat classes, there are areas where they are more popular. They're well respected as very solid stable boats with good performance and are definitely more resistant to pitch polling than the Hobie 14 and 16s.

Hi Jake,
Thanks for your comments. I think you covered Jon's questions very well.
The only thing I would add are some PNs to relate relative boat performance of other boardless beach cats. SC 17 PN=73.3, Hobie 16 PN=76.1, P16 PN=77.5, P18 PN=74.9, Dart 18 PN=76.9, N5.0 PN=76.4 and ARC17 w/spi=70. The SC 17 can be upgraded to an ARC 17 if you want to with a factory kit. The kit includes a self tacking jib, a square top mainsail and a spinnaker and pole. If you usually sail single handed, the self tacking jib would be a big help by itself.
Good Sailing,
Bill

With respect to SC-17s and their Portsmouth numbers - it's a ratings beater, sails faster than the rating would have you believe from what I've seen.

Super Cat17…Great boat, you won’t regret buying one. To my knowledge there is not another “boardless beach cat” under 18’ foot that is faster or more resistant to pitch polling (except for the latest evolution of the Supercat 17…the ARC17).

I have owned a 1982 Boston Whaler built Supercat 17 and I now own a 1994 version built by the people who current build the ARC catamaran series designed by Bill Roberts. That should tell you something…how many people would go out and buy the exact same product again if given the opportunity to purchase something other than what they own?

The Supercat 17 is very well designed and built. They excel in rough water, and good wind, an inevitable combination here in the Atlantic off of South Florida. Bill Roberts (the designer) has always been very accessible to answer any of my questions. Whether it deals with overall set up, performance enhancements, or sailing techniques that takes advantage of the symmetrical hull design rather than the typical asymmetrical Hobie and Prindle hull designs.

Parts are never a problem as they are just a phone call away. Tom Haberman of ARC catamarans and Aquarius sails, will fix you up with whatever replacement parts you need. And if you what to add some more horse power, Tom can do that too, with newer style square top mains and spinnaker kits that are designed and tested to work optimum on the SC17 platform, no need for trial and error.

Regards,
Bob

Keith,
A boat being incorrectly rated by US Sailing can only happen if and when racw committes do not turn race results in. Race committes ,Please turn all ET race results to Darline Hobock. They can be sent by e mail. All it takes is a couple of clicks on the computer.
I think you are right on the 17's PN. I sailed one for the first time in 15 years at the Tradewinds this year. The boat sailed to a 70 not using the spinnaker. Darline has this data. Let's all be good race results reporters.
Bill

What is the approximate cost of a new arc 17 with all the options?

Also, Bill, if you know, what is the cost of an new Arc 21?

I am in the market for a new boat after getting run over by a power boat yesterday.

Hey Arbo, You got run over by a Powerboat?? was that at the Wild thing buoy races on Saturday??

I saw this boat when these photos used on their website were taken last February at Navarre Beach, Florida. Beautiful boat boat, and great quality. Go for it!

http://www.aquarius-sail.com/

I've only seen one up here, but if I'd known the guy was going to sell it, I'd have bought it!

In answer to your title question, they aren't.
There are no concentrations of s17s anywhere.
There is one in the mid-atlantic which races once or twice a year.
I have never heard of a regatta which had two S17s attend.

Are you interested in racing or just sailing?

First off, thanks for all the input! This is a great forum, I post a question and the next day get great input, even from the manufacturer!

I'm not really looking to race. I currently have a '80 Hobie 16 and was thinking about a newer Hobie when I saw this boat for sale. I live in Ithaca, NY and the boat is in the Finger Lakes region. I don't even know the asking price, but if you're interested and I pass on it, I can let you know what I find out.
So, if I go to take a look at the boat, are there any things that I should be looking out for? Any years better or worse than others? I think the ad said that the sail had the number 4 on it. What general price range should I expect for a SC-17?
thanks a bunch.

Jon

Eric,
I'm sorry to hear about your boat accident and thank goodness you and your son weren't hurt. I design'em and sail'em but I don't sell'em. I don't know the prices. I do know that Tom Haberman at the factory has an ARC 17 and 21 ready to sell. The 21 is slightly used but good as new, only sailed a few times. The 17 is new and has not been rigged yet. Give Tom a call at 651-462 7245 and get the details.
I'm glad you guys are OK.
Bill

Hi Jon,
I overlooked one of your questions, the one on "pitchpole tendency". The relative tendency of boats of the same size to pitchpole can be evaluated by simply measuring the height of the bows of the boats in question. For a boat to pitchpole, it must first push the bow underwater and make the deck become the bow, the hull part that is splitting the water. The boat with the tallest bow , the most hull volume forward, is the "less likely to pitchpole" hull shape. Also flat foredecks pitchpole more violently, more quickly, than rounded foredecks.
Good Sailing,
Bill

The SC /ARC range of boats look interesting, I followed the link to the web-site, like the look of the ARC 21, quoted weight is same as F18 ! Is this correct ?
Bill, you amaze me, in previous posts you defend heavier boats with more horsepower as the better route, yet your designs are quoted as being comparatively very light, and on the Tornado thread you argue against going with a carbon mast while many of the ARC boats are fitted with carbon masts. Maybe one day we`ll figure out which side of the fence you really sit ?
I know which route I`d go if it was between F18 & ARC 21, depends on what they cost of course, but I`d go with the ARC even if there`s no class, looks like a big enough toy to go 3 or 4 up, a long way down the coast.
Of course, the 27 looks like even more fun, but I`m digressing here.
The SC17 looks like a good boat, and has the option of upgrading the sails to squaretop main & added spinnaker. Sounds like a fun toy with potential. No offense to Hobie sailors, but I`d go with that option over Hobie 16 any day.

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,
Yes, the ARC21s weigh in at just under 400 pounds complete. That is a fiberglass and aluminum boat. I did not know the F18s were so heavy for an 18ft boat. The ARC21 could be built at 300 pounds in all carbon everything and double the cost. The 300 pound boat would have a PN of 58, big whoop! Is it worth it? I don't think so.
As far as ARC products go,the boats are the best built fiberglass/epoxy/aluminum boats on the market. And just so you know, the spinnaker launcher, the square top mainsail and the self tacking jib all first came out on ARC products. The other boats are copycats and some of them can't do that right.
My point about heavier wider boats being high performance is that it is a less expensive way to go fast than all carbon everything and narrow.
On the Tornado mast question: If the new carbon mast weighs the same as the aluminum mast or is only a few pounds lighter weight than the aluminum mast and has the same section and bend as the aluminum mast, then the boat won't know the difference and it will be the same speed. The word carbon does not automatically make a sailboat go faster. Also the Tornado is an established class with a few thousand boats spread around the world. If the class rules are changed and the carbon mast is changed in section and weight and is faster, then that makes a few thousand aluminum masts obsolete. Is that best for the Tornado class for a 0.001 improvement in PN??? I don't think so. The words "one design" have to stand for something in a 40 year old "one design class".
Bill

Bill - our club's results are used in the adjustments, or at least the US Sailing site says so. I keep them relatively up to date on our website, and Darline gets them from there. Past years are also there. We unfortunately use the DPN instead of wind-corrected, which is of less help in the grand scheme of things. Also unfortunately, our 17s have become inactive as far as racing goes, so there's no new results to report to add anything to the 17. We have a 15 that sometimes races, and that's another one that really impresses me.

The new ratings beater in our club is the A-Cat! Amazing boats...

with all due respect, Bill is too general.
i could take a set of hobie16 hulls and make a boat that would never pitchpole by modifing the rig. or, i could take a set of 16' hulls with a 6inch high bow, a deck shape like a torpedo and set the main beam up high enough with streamlined stantions, making a craft that wouldn't pitchpole. the hull would ride under water, and as long as the front beam and associated platform never went under water there would be nothing to trip up the forward motion of the craft.
the point being is that there are many factors in cat design. the rig size and postion be as crucial as hullshape and bow height.
-sailing rules-

Of course we're getting off topic here, but I always found that the thing that contributed largely to the initiation of pitching on my Hobies was the hull/deck joint lip. I sailed on boats with flat and rounded decks that can tolerate punching it in only to pop out the other side, but whenever the deck lip on my 18 or 14 started to get in the water the deceleration and tripping action began to be felt.