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by soulofasailor. 03/12/25 11:02 AM
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Performance Choice #39814
11/05/04 08:42 PM
11/05/04 08:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 38
dickcnacra52 Offline OP
newbie
dickcnacra52  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 38
Let me pose a question to you all and see what your advice is. Say you know you will almost always be single handing, racing weekly in club races with a bunch of monohull sailors. Say that you were basically given a Nacra 5.2 in great shape to race, but were told that if you had to always single hand you would be better served with a Uni cat of some type, not the Nacra 5.2 with jib and main.

Here is the question - would I be better served to get a newer and modern Uni format cat, or can I just use the main only on the Nacra and have as simple a sail effort as on the newer boat. Will a Nacra 5.2 handle and be at all competitive in PHRF without the jib - probably not is my guess. But - is there a real value added to me to go pay for a newer single sail cat when I have one now for free that is in great shape but seems to be best used with two sails and two sailors? Getting a second person to crew is almost impossible - so it will be single hand or not at all most race days. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

Dick

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Performance Choice [Re: dickcnacra52] #39815
11/05/04 09:15 PM
11/05/04 09:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
What size PHRF boats?

The reality is that you will always be looking to sail in clean air and at slightly different angles then the mono's (and those masts and wind shadows are deadly). You won't be engaged in any tacking or jibing duels so you probably can deal with handling the jib. Usually you pick a side of the course to keep your air clear ... shallow water is a definite plus for keeping your air clear.)

In light to moderate air you would go crazy not having the jib on your 5.2. In breeze you probably can handle the boat comfortably so that's no problem. In big breeze, you will have plenty of power with the main only so just leave the jib on the beach.

A second factor that argues for the 5.2 is the kind of courses that PHRF boats are likely to run. They probably use fixed goverment marks and so its unlikely you will be running true windward leeward courses... You will thank your stars for the jib on any kind of reaching legs.

With respect to buying another boat... If you like the 5.2, I would keep it. I don't think that a single handed boat would add much to the kind of racing you are talking about.. Now... the newer boats A class or a 16 or 17 with a chute are just lots more fun to sail but would not affect the racing fun factor that you are planing.

Your problem will be in non hull flying conditions you probably are as fast as the PHRF B class boats. In breeze, you will be running with the top PHRF A boats. Your rating in PHRF is fixed and will be fair in one condition or the other or if averaged...unfair in both.

I would ask for two club PHRF ratings that are selected based on wind speed. You should be able to judge how well you sailed under these circumstances.

Have Fun
Mark






crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Performance Choice [Re: dickcnacra52] #39816
11/08/04 10:29 AM
11/08/04 10:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
First make absolutly sure you can right the boat under worst conditions. Buy or build a righting bar if needed. There are a lot of methods that will let a 5.2 by yourself. But, when you have 15 secs to right the boat or go under a dock, brute force works.

That said, there is no reason a 5.2 uni will not work for what you want. A a properly setup 5.2 with the jib removed, is a sloop with no jib, it is not setup right. The mast rake and the diamond wires are wrong for example. The only thing you can be compared to is a 5.5 uni and you have a boom, that helps.

First rake the mast vertical. If the bow dives, rake it back a little. Next rerig the lines so you can get to everything from the wire. Look at a 5.5 uni and 18 sq's with booms. You don't need to do everything at once. If you don't know what it does, you probably don't need to tweak it from the wire. The big problem will be the outhaul. The best I have seen is the Mastrom A's.


The next step is to figure out how to make the boat go fast. This is the fun part.

IF you really get into this, have sail made for a 5.2 uni. That will make a huge difference.

Remember, if in doubt don't fiddle with something, sail the boat.


Adding to What Carl Said [Re: carlbohannon] #39817
11/08/04 11:11 AM
11/08/04 11:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Quote
a properly setup 5.2 with the jib removed, is a sloop with no jib, it is not setup right.


What Carl said is so true. The mainsail for a sloop boat has a different cut than a uni. For sloops the draft at the top is around 30% and near the bottom, it is around 50%. The reason for the difference is to accomodate the jibs overlap.
Take away the jib and your sail is cut wrong. It should be Somewhere between 30 and 40 % aft all the way down.
So, if you are going to remove the jib, you will probably need to get a new mainsail made.

A great and fast rig for single-handing would be a main, with a self-tacking, roller-furling jib and roller-furling spinnaker (Hooter or Reacher). Hot boat that is easy to operate.
Good luck,
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Performance Choice [Re: dickcnacra52] #39818
11/08/04 11:33 AM
11/08/04 11:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Can a beach cat get a PHRF handicap rating? If so, since it is based upon performance relative to the other boats it is racing against, what difference would it make what sail configuration you use or how slow or fast the boat goes?

Re: Adding to What Carl Said [Re: RickWhite] #39819
11/08/04 11:48 AM
11/08/04 11:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
SteveT Offline
enthusiast
SteveT  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
Rick,
I've gone out in my H20 with main only and found that the only way to keep the boat from rounding up is to ease the traveler about six inches, then sheet normaly. This is particularly true in any breeze over 10 knots. Anything lighter and using the jib is the only way to fly. Can't you also just crank down the cunningham to move the draft forward a bit?


H-20 #896
Re: Adding to What Carl Said [Re: SteveT] #39820
11/09/04 11:29 AM
11/09/04 11:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Cunninghams will have that effect on sails without battens, but would do no good on a battened sail. Cats call the Cunningham a Downhaul. And the Downhaul will bend the mast and flatten the sail -- probably not what you want in light air.
The sloop mainsails are just designed that way. On my Taipan 4.9, which can be sailed as a sloop or uni, I have two different sails. One for Uni and one for sloop. Both are very different cuts and will not exchange with each other successfully.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com

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