Hi all,
it's been a year since I started racing an HC16. With poor results and no visible improvement, I recently bought a new boat (just in case it were a poor materiel case) but no luck neither. Althogh I'm now pretty sure it has to do with my racing skills there is always a (slim) chance that it has also to do with the rigging and trimming. The fact is that it is very difficult to find a consensus about this type of questions. So in order to be sure I would like to know if the next statements are true (I post here because most of them are general and not HC16 specific):

1. All other parameters invariable, shrouds attach one hole up every 10Kg of added crew weight
2. Shrouds attach point (SAP) may vary from 1 to 5, the lower for more mast rake and more overall tension on the rig
3. Mast rake (MR) is controlled by SAP and gib halyard tension (GHT). Max MR should only be limited by the main blocks config as there should always ‘cost’ you some effort to go block-to-block.
4. Jib-forestay attach point (JFAP) may vary and affects the distance between jib blocks and jib clew (upper for more distance). All other parameters invariable JFAP is adjusted to minimize that distance and still keep a minimum tension in the jib sheet when cranked.
5. Jib inner-most traveler point is determined to make the previous point possible.
6. Jib leech and foot tensions should look similar when jib sheet is cranked.
7. Jib leech should be parallel to the fore part of the main: the so-called slot between sails should look nice. Depending of rigging parameters that means adjusting jib controls when main changes.
8. Cunningham may vary from minimum tension enough to get rid of wrinkles to max tension allowed by the black stripe in the mast.
9. Apply cunningham tension to flaten the main. A flat main gives less power, more speed, higher pointing and is more prone to stall.
10. When close hauled, main traveler varies from centered to 5 inches displaced leeward depending on wind. Two-trap conditions=centered, no-trap conditions=5 inches.
11. When close hauled, distance between main blocks is similar to main traveler position: traveller centered for no distance.
12. Main sheet and traveler offset is also used to de-power.
13. When close hauled, jib sheet & traveller will be somewhat loose with weak wind, cranked with 1-trap and two-trap and again loosened to de-power.
14. As a general rule, the more windy, the more tension is applied.
15. As a general rule, the more windy, the more mast rake can be applied.

Thanks in advance for your comments
aestela
HC16 108034.

You've got a lot of questions up in that post there,

while it may not answer them all, I'd search for "Hobie 16 Tuning Guide" on google and see what you get, I pulled down this URL,
http://www.cat44.com/hobie-16-tuning-tips.htm
that seemed to address at least some of the issues you had. When I'm not on company time I can go through and give you some overall advice. I'm sure others will chime in before that though.

aestela


Not to sound contrite, but you have outlined your main problem in 15 points. Look up the Tuning guide in the link given and leave it alone. The H16 has essentially no tuning on the water, so it is set up on the beach and as long as you are in the ball park with respect to the settings everyone else is using, you are done. Talk to the top racers of these boats in your area. You will find for the most part that the only difference anyone makes in settings for conditions will be the jib halyard tensions and the amount of downhaul. This makes the 16 fun to sail, becuase it is all technique from there. If you can master sailing this boat well you will miles ahead when moving up to something else more complex.

Matt

Well, part of the problem, at least, is that I've already been thru the rigging tips that can be found in Internet and also have asked to the best sailors around. And most of what I've read or heard is contradictory.
The list I've posted tries to be a basis, something where to start from.
As you may well have noticed there is no indication about the best setting (which hole, which exact distance).
I want to be sure that the list, every point, makes sense in order to work from there on.

aestela

You've done a lot of research and it sounds like you understand a lot about setting up the boat...but are you sailing and executing well? Are you roll tacking the boat and easing 10" or so of mainsheet as you go through the eye of the wind? Are you bearing off enough just after tacking to power the boat back up before getting back on the wind? Are you too conservative when estimating laylines and therefore sailing extra distance? There are countless other excecution variables regarding boat handling that are far more important than almost every item you listed above. I highly recommend getting a training video or book ... the Rick White series of books and videos are spectacular in this regard.

Secondly, "get your head out of the boat" while sailing. Look around, observe how the other boats are behaving and tuned (if you can stay close enough!). Identify your problems one at a time and work on resolving them. Are you able to point as high as the other boats? If not, determine which parameters greatly affect pointing ability and work on those until you can (mast rake, sheet tension, downhaul, etc.)....etc. One of the biggest things that has helped me beyond the books and videos is to sail a day or two with someone with the experience you need.

I have to agree with Matt M. and Jake - the H16 is all about technique. Once you have the basic set-up (which you seem to have from your post), the rest is just boat handling, strategy and tactics.

Where do you sail and who are you sailing against?

I'm sailing in Valencia, Spain, against some of the best spanish sailors once a month. Even if I get the best start they always seem to point higher and go faster .
It makes sense to put it to the superior handling because no two of them have the same settings or trim.

aestela

How much do you and your crew weigh together? Not being able to point with other teams is often the result of being heavier on the boat.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

When I had a Hobie 16, it seemed that the boat was a different type of beast. The boat has its own style and there is def. a spot in the boat where you can just get into the groove and roll with it. Many of the Hobie 16 sailors I was around def. had different styles of sailing the boat. While there was no "set" style or method, many of them would win methods. What set them apart though was consistentcy. Learn to sail the boat the way you rig it. If you have a major rigging problem, you'll figure it out.
Another thing about the Hobie 16 is the battens. Read up on batten tension, etc, as I found that it makes a huge difference on the boat, especially in light wind.
Trey
N20 314

I think you just answered your own question again without realizing it. You say that no two of them have the same settings or trim, yet all of them sail faster than you. Hence, it ain't the settings or trim.

Put a bunch of tell-tails on the sail so you can see what it's doing. Then try to feel the boat. Get your head out of the boat. It kind of needs to be like riding a bike. When riding a bike you don't look at the ground right under the wheel. Or look at the handlebars to see where you are steering. You look way out ahead and your body feels and guides the bike. Try to get into the same kind of relationship with your Hobie 16.

And if your doing that right (feeling your boat) you will probably be able to tell for yourself when an adjustment helps or hurts your speed. It will "feel" better or worse.

If they are pointing higher than you I guess your problem is main sheet tension!

Most sailors sail with the main traveler 5 cm from center at minimum an use a lot of main sheet tension. When single trapezing and marginal double trapzeing conditions you should be able to oversheet the main before you sheet block2block, the lee telltale should be "nervous". To oversheet the main you really need to sheet HARD!

Your total weight should be between 125-145 kg. If you are below 125 kg you need to add weight to get to 130 kg and if you are above 145 kg you are in trouble.

/hakan

Aestela:

I'm surprised that Rick or Mary didn't jump in and explain their videos. I've seen them and they're informative. It's a mileage thing. Most of the top sailors in our division compete at least a dozen times a year and practice often. You blow one tack or start on the wrong side and you're not going anywhere; you'll always be taking stupid chances trying to look smart, but it'll never happen.

Want proof? Go to the Nationals or Worlds and see the winning team is still winning on a boat that they don't own and have to rotate with others.

Just stay on the water...and learn. Talk to your crew all the time on what you plan to do and why.

Wyatt

Just get out and sail...The more you sail the faster your boat will go. You have only been at it for a year.

Aestela,

Recognized most of your questions. I am curious to hear about your recent experiences, any specific improvements made?


You'll probably have found most answers in the meantime, but maybe I can give some hints as well.

Weight and balance turn out to be rather important due to low volume of the Hobie. To far to the aft and you'll create a lot of turbulence slowing your speed. Especially in light winds.

I sail mostly alone and with (for Hobie standards) minimal mast rake. Shroud position 4, or 5th hole from below. Makes my steering control 100% neutral, so I can use 2 hands for quick adjustments of main sail (and jib). Paying closest possible attention to the tell tales (added some at the leech of my main sail) and using trapeze as soon as possible.
Since April 1st 2005 Hobie 16 rules are changed: cunningham and jib halyard modifications. More adjustments on the water are possible now (and allowed). Did try almost any rigging and trimming option, but in most cases I found difference are hard to detect.

One thing I am still in doubt about being the tension of the jib halyard. Rather tight is not very accurate. Should be very critical, 2,5 cm adjustment is told to make a big difference.

Hope anyone can give me some idea about "rather tight" and what difference should it make? Maybe it got something to do with my "below average" up-wind performances?

Tried to include the upgrade kit file but being pdf-format it was rejected. In case anyone interested you can find it on the dutch Hobie dealer site [http://www.hobiecat.nl/] under Hobie news / archive / upgrade kit Hobie 16. Did not manage to convert file yet, or trace it on other website.

Rake equals pointing especially on the Hobie 16. And they are really raking quite dramatically these days..........

see attachment

Tom Turlington
F17 #124