OK, today was my third time out this year, and thirteenth overall. With the shrouds hooked in the 3rd hole up, the outhaul and downhaul nice and tight, a good stiff blow of 10+, I couldn't get the hull off the water. I weigh about 225 and found that I had to sit close to the shrouds for best fore/aft balance. Prior to today with shrouds in middle hole I needed to sit back more and was airlifted with same wind and speed(as far as I could ascertain). BTW, I wasn't trying to get airborne, just surprised by the new symptoms. Am I on right track? Should I go down another hole? Or am I losing power by doing so? Just about everything I read by the racer crowd indicates they prefer serious rake. Guess I need a GPS to accurately track speed. There are no other Hobie sailors around here. Opinions please. Thanks, ralph

Well, I wouldn't really call 10 a stiff blow. That's pretty light. Today I went out with my mom (total weight - about 280lbs) in similar winds... 10 gusting to 13 or so. I hardly down/out-hauled at all and we only got the hull out of the water a couple of times. You really need more wind than that, bro. If your telltales are flowing properly then that's all you can ask for.
Yes, having more mast rake will reduce overall boat power but you'll point a bit higher, so there's a tradeoff.

Jaimezx, Not sure you were paying close attention. My post says 10+. Not sure how much wind, but my wake was as big as it ever was when hull was flying in the past. So probably force 4 - "exciting conditions for the more experienced. Most cats fly hulls" according to Phil Berman's Catamaran Sailing from Start to Finish. But then you live in Texas so probably enjoy BIG winds. Unless I am going downwind I always prefer to have pretty tight sails. I suspect my sails are original (83) and they are never real stiff. Why are you interested in pointing "a bit higher"? Are you trying to make it around a point? Or racing? My kicks come from going fast w/o losing it. The point I was driving at, and looking for opinions on, was whether or not I am going just as fast staying flat with with the mast raked as I was going with it vertical and lifting a hull. Guess I'll have to study Rick's book some more, or hook up my GPS, as the big guns don't seem interested in my novice questions. Tally ho!

Well, I took my own advice and spent some time in Rick's book. Chapters 2 - 7 tons of info regarding the questions I was looking for relatively simplistic answers to. Too many variables for simple answers. Guess that's why it's such a challenge and why I like it so much.

The variables... Wind & boat speed are difficult to determin with out tools... Anemometer and GPS can be helpful to make that stuff more measurable. While you will find a couple of GPS's that would work o.k. for cat sailing... measuring true wind speed on a boat is not really possible.

Pointing... Pointing or improving the ability of your cat to point is quiet important. Hobie 16's with asymetric hulls and the lack of lateral surface (daggerboard) perform particularly poorly in that category.
Raking the mast back will improve your pointing abilities. Raking the mast back is limited by your cat's main sheet system, the mastbase, and the way the jib is cut. Even with a good amount of mast rake your pointing abilities will be far less than that of a average monohull. From on tack to the other I meassure more like 120* (that angle could be in the range of 90*)
Mast rake has some other undesirable side effect... while moving the center of effort further back you cat will pull more towards weather. You can compensate for that with the helm - causing drag. Rudder rake adjustment can be helpful if this is available on your Hobie - the drag remains - just feels better on the helm.

As Jim mentioned befor... it is a trade off - power vs. pointing

[color:"blue"]Not to me yoh, I want to go fast, but I am not in a hurry to get anywhere in particular. [/color]

[color:"blue"]Yeah - well that is the same thing as pointing higher so you have to pull on the helm to keep from heading up too much, eh? Thanks for the get back.[/color]

KIND of. There's a difference between the actual ability of the boat to point and the mere tendancy of the physics of the thing to want to go head to wind all the time. One is nice, one is annoying, yet they are closely related.

"There's a difference between the actual ability of the boat to point and the mere tendancy of the physics of the thing to want to go head to wind all the time."
[color:"blue"]I guess if you believe that we have a semantics, or perhaps a communication problem. But thanks for your explanations, and the pictures of you on your Hobies. [/color]

I don't race but I like the excitement of speed and flying a hull. I don't worry about slight differences in the ability to point up. I was told a long time ago that if you are pointing up, the line you will take when you tack is approximately a line from the mast through the shroud, that is if you sighted from the mast through the shroud that would be your course on the next tack. It seems to be accurate enough for me. I believe pointing up is also affected by the apparent wind, the resultant wind vector created by the actual wind and the boat speed and direction. As boat speed increases, the apparent wind vector moves towards the bow. Simple vector summation. Weather helm (or lee helm) is the turning moment caused by a force couple of center of effort and center of resistance. Several factors can move the location of those forces and affect weather helm. If it is excessive, rudder rake or mast rake will change it. I want some weather helm since a boat with lee helm is a dangerous boat. If you find a mast rake position that you are happy with and you don't race, leave it there and don't worry about fine tuning for speed.

Howard