I sail in the atlantic and launch from the beach and I store my boat right next to the beach so everyone there has beach wheels to put our boats on and roll them down into the water. I used to always tie the wheels to the side cable stays with a little slack and then when I got on the front cable rig and pulled it down the wheels would slide back a little so the center of balance was a little in front of the wheels that way i coudl get traction in the sand with my feet to pull the thing around. After doing some work on the boat though, even though I didn't do anything significant enough that it should have changed the weight distribution, I cant get the boats weight to shift. Now it seems like the back of the boat is always really heavy, and when i'm on the front cables I am actually having to pull down with about 50 pounds of force so I'm losing a ton of tracting and I cant get it through thick sand by myself anymore. I tried moving the wheels even further back but it didn't help. Then i thought it might be that the mast rake is different, but it anything, it's farther forward, especially when i'm pulling on that part of the rig. Does anyone else use beach wheels? and if so, where do you find the center of balance of the boat to be?

The center of balance for your particular boat IS where it IS. You put the wheels under the boat until you find the perfect balance point. Nobody can answer that question for you.

For a Hobie 18 the balance point was at the shrouds. For the Hobie Wave it is well back from the shrouds, between the two molded-in seats.

If you think you know the perfect balance point for your boat and the back end is still too heavy, maybe it is full of water.

sorrry i forgot to specify, it's an H16. not full of water though. I recently repaired my hulls and now I get no water in them. before the rapair I was able to get the boat on the wheels right without a problem whether it was full of water or not. Now it seems like it has shifted way to the back.

Is it possible that you had water in the hulls when it was on the cattracks before you repaired it and that it shifted toward the bows when you were moving the boat? Now that you know there is no water in the hulls maybe the balance point is where it should be. Why not locate the balance point and then compare it to other boats around you. It is hard to imagine that any repairs could make the balance change much.

Howard

before repairs I drained the hulls completely, then afterward I took it sailing a few time but I had someone helping me take it to the beach so I didn't notice teh weight distribtion. It didn't take on water any of those times, but I still tilt it back on the wheels and let the plugs out just to check because i'm paranoid. This problem definately does not have to do with water in the hulls. I guess it must be the mast rake, but I was pretty sure I put it back in the same places it was....

I hate to suggest something that might seem so obvious, but maybe it is not the boat that is the problem but the beach wheels themselves. Every time one of our boats gets hard to roll around, it is because one or both of the beach wheels are either flat or low on air.

This has been a recurring problem with all three types of beach wheels we own.

If the wheels are fully inflated, you certainly should be able to find a balance point somewhere.

I, unfortunately, have the crappy plastic type, so they dont inflate, they just hold up under their own structural strength. I've used inflatable ones before and they are indeed much better than the plasic ones even when one of the wheels is low on air. the problem here though is that the boat is not shifting the way it used to when I pull down the front. Usually when I pull down on the front cable stay, once I get the boat leaning forward rather than back, the wheels slip backwards a little and that puts the weight forward so I can pull the thing around. Now though, they dont slide back on their own, and even when I move them back manually, the weight is still behind the wheels.

Do you think it might be possible to lengthen the lines that attach to the stays so the wheels could go back farther to reach the balance point?

You are kidding about all this, aren't you?

P.S. One last thing. If you are taking those hard plastic wheels into the water, maybe the wheels themselves are full of water -- although I'm not sure how that would affect your situation.

actually the wheels did take on a bit of water, which didn't make it any easier to move the boat, but that doesnt' have to do with the center of balance.
I have decided that I must have re-attached the stays at a different rake. it still doesn't seem like that could be too significant.

here I attatched a little picture describing the delimma. It's a little exaggerated and alot badly drawn as you can see. but it gets the point across. As you can see, I have the boat slanted so even if there was water in the hulls it would slosh to in front of the wheels anyway.

HAHAHAHAH that's the best drawing ever!! Draw something else!!!

yeah sorry i knew it was gonna be really bad cause i made it in mspaint so i just went ahead and made it as corny as possible so at the very least you guys would get a kick out of it.

I'm saving it for later in case you say something I don't like I can use it against you.

Aaronhoy,

Cool drawing for sure. But, I have to agree with Mary, you are kidding right? I mean, finding the center of gravity (balance point) in this instance is absolutely childs play - regardless of whether or not it has moved from where it was located previously. Just move the wheels until you find it...period. What else can people say on this? This is one of those problems that truly is...no problem at all...unless...

The only thing you should be concerned about is WHY your C of G has apparently moved. It can only be one thing - weight. Weight has been added, subtracted or moved on your boat. If there is no apparent water in your boat - and you haven`t altered your setup - and the repairs you made did not add a significant amount of weight, then you may have a bad leak somewhere (possibly internal) and major water penetration into the core of your hull (very bad). If core H2O penetration is the case, then your description of having to pull down excessively at the bridles indicates it is likely towards the stern of one of your hulls. Percuss (gently tap) the hulls thoroughly with a small rubber hammer or similar object and look for changes in the sound you hear. Compare these sounds bilaterally (both hulls, same approximate location) and listen for differences. H2O penetration will yield duller more "thud-like" sounds by comparison. If you find this, you have a major problem that will require serious "boat surgery" and many months to fix. Also, without knowing your particular climate, do not let those hulls freeze this winter or you will be looking for a new boat in the spring. If you know a marine surveyor who will give you a cost break, have him/her examine your hulls with a moisture sensor and give you an opinion. Core penetration may not be worth fixing if it is bad enough to change your balance point so much.



Dave

yeah sorry I did find the center of balance what Im trying to figure out is why it is so far back. No hull leakage as I mentioned earlier, and even if there was the water would be able to slosh to the front. I used to have leaky hulls but that didn't really pose a problem because of that fact that you can just tilt the boat forward and let it move. Also it doen'st freeze here in the winter. thanks for the idea though. My concern was not with finding hte center of balanece but with keeping the wheels there, I also wanted to know if anyone else has had an odd center of balance. I've never run into a hobie that the center wasn't near the stays. since the new center is not as close to the stays, every time you stop for a second and set the boat down or anything the wheels roll around on the slack in the rope. I talked to a local friend who had this happen and he said it turned out someone had put sand in his hulls I'm checking mine as soon as i get off work.

Aaronhoy,

Water penetration into the cores of your hulls WILL NOT slosh around at all and is absolutely nothing like the previous leaks you have experienced. It is a situation where the core layer becomes "water-logged" through a wicking effect. Be sure you understand the difference here. Core H2O penetration is pretty much undetectable by casual observation and can add many, many pounds of weight to the boat. It is also pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a boat other that being totally crushed or lost at sea.


Dave

ahh, i just re-read your other post and now i see what you mean. I must have been out of it, I thought you were talking about just normal leakage. Anyway that would make alot of sense, but how much weight could it really add? The hulls aren't really all that thick. I guess it would add up though if the whole back of the boat was waterlogged... Why would it only happen on the back?

Aaronhoy,

As a rough estimate, and judging by the core thickness, if your ENTIRE core became saturated it could probably double the weight of your hulls. However, completely saturating all of the core material in a boat would be a rare instance for sure. The point here is that the weight gain from water could be very significant while your hulls appear completely dry inside and out.

As for why it is (may be) occurring only at the stern. This requires some visualization of "wicking". If the leak is near the stern, the water will enter there slowly and persistently. The actual leak can sometimes be very, very small. The water wicks in at that location and then spreads out. This is the chemical nature of water (look up osmotic and oncotic pressures/gradients for more understanding). Without sounding too dramatic, this kind of water intrusion can be a boaters` nightmare. It is the number one reason bigger boats are usually surveyed before being purchased. A boat may look great in every sense, but be a disaster because of this unseen problem. I have been a powerboater for years, and this is the one worry that can keep me up at night.

I do not know how commonly core H2O penetration occurs with the H16. I know the H16 is, in fact, a cored construction. Therefore, it can happen. But, since these boats are generally stored on land, it must occur to a lessor degree than boats that reside in the water.

Dave

hmmmm.. before I did repairs I had leaks but I never had any problems with the hulls being particularly heavy. Then I sealed the hulls up completely, so there should be no leak points, and certainly no new ones if anything there may be some spots I missed around the seam at the top. Anyway, after the repairs I had about 8 hours of sailing time with no problems and then the next time I went sailing I noticed the difference after I was done and in the process of pulling the boat back up to the boatyard. Could this happen this fast?

It is difficult to say. I would generally say that it would take more time than that to saturate any significant portion of your cores. But, this is just a guess for your particular situation - assuming this is even your problem to begin with. My personal experience with the human observation of various "problems" is that we often perceive things to have developed quickly when in fact they developed quite slowly over time - unnoticed. Then, once the problem reaches some noticable threshold, we QUICKLY become aware of them - a very different situation altogether that tends to lead us to an incorrect conclusion.

In any event, rather than continue to speculate, you need to determine if water penetration is, in fact, your particular problem here. Then you can report back to this forum if you wish.


Dave