Mary,

"Jake, I said I have never Pitchedpoled."

Mary, that may have been what you meant, but it wasn't what you said. What you said in the fourm, "standing on dagger boards to right an F18," was what I quoted in the opening post. In the complete post you said, "Okay, I understand how important it is to know how to right your boat if you capsize, but what I don't understand is why you guys capsize in the first place. It's really not necessary, you know."

At first I thought you were just ribbing us, then I read the post again and wasn't sure. That's why I asked. I still don't know, but your reply to Jake leaves me thinking you were serious.

I'm of the opinion that capsizing is absolutely necessary, a requirement if you will, if you want to learn to go fast or race competitively. So I can't see how you can defend that viewpoint unless you're chuckling inside.

Daniel

I suppose I should explain something. Popeye started this thread by using a quote from me that I posted on another thread in one of the other forums. It was never meant to stand alone and out of context.

In answer to Popeye's original question: Yes, it was partly tongue-in-cheek, but I said it for a serious reason. That particular thread was about how to right cats, but the tone of some of the posters made it sound like capsize and/or pitchpole are routine and normal (and frequent) if you want to sail a catamaran.

This is not a good image to present to people who might be reading these forums and thinking about getting catamarans. So I thought I should mention that capsizing and pitchpoling are not a "necessary" feature of catamarans.

It has to be confusing to people when we tell them on the one hand that catamarans are much more stable than monohulls and on the other hand tell them that they have to accept that their catamaran is going to be capsizing and/or pitchpoling frequently.

ANY boat, monohull or multihull, will capsize or swamp in certain weather conditions. If a multihull is sailed conservatively and if sail is reduced appropriately for the weather conditions, it certainly should survive better than a monohull.

I think an interesting side of our boats is that we can crash them hard, flip them, pitch pole them, and then we can right them and continue on without a care. It is possible to flip and still win the race.

Try that in any other boat! I think I've gotten to the point where I feel more comfortable taking the 6.0 out in crap I wouldn't take my old keelboat out in, knowing the KB could flood and sink, and would get mercilessly bashed. This in spite of the fact that I can't reduce sail area appropriately on the 6.0, and have no place to go below and stay comfy.

So maybe that helps add to our mitigation of concerns regarding capsizing - for the most part the consequences are small. If we had to pump all the water out of the boat, or get a powerboat to pull us up, or expensive parts broke every time, you'd bet we'd avoid capsizes like the plague!

I just need to make sure I don't continue the "capsizing ain't bad" attitude over to sailing the F-27...

But Mary, this forum is NOT AS MUCH FUN if we don't pull EVERYTHING out of context!

And I'll agree with Mary's further comments about capsizing being unnecessary in a well-sailed cat. She doesn't mention racing, hot-dogging, or other methods that dramatically increase the likelihood of something like that happening.

Ok, that was a new one in a sailing context. Please explain

It's american slang for "showing off". It is what you would be doing if you blazed by the fleet on the trapeze upside down (with your hands on the hull and your feet out in the air).

Or showing how high and how long you can fly a hull.

Thank you for explaining.

Hot-dogging, huh.. Wonder how that one came about.

It's a pretty common expression in skiing.., and may have come from that source, i.e., bump skiiers, back flippers, et al.
Rick

Rick, there is a skiing 'trick' I know as "hot-dogging" or "hot-dog", but that's not very fast (and probably a bit indecent) on a beachcat.

We have a rule on our boat: "We are not allowed to capsize." It is as easy as that. We have only gone over twice on our Tiger. Once at a leeward mark, first time racing, due to lack of understanding about rounding up too much with the spin 1/2 way up. The other was in Monday's wind of the Tiger Worlds in Santa Barbara. Eileen has forgiven me for both but she will remind me of the rule if the day is "blowing dogs off chains."

She reminded me of it as I was leaving the dock with her niece and nephew. They weigh less than 100 lbs each and it was blowing somewhere around 20 on the outside, where we sailed. They had a blast and it was a really good sailing introduction to them. Yes it was the first and second time for them on the boat.

Later,
Dan

We have a rule on our boat, too: No hot-dogging!

Not the showing off kind, that is OK. We don't allow the Norway skiing version.

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2

"The use of hot dog to mean skilled or proficient is unrelated to the sausage. In a bit of linguistic coincidence, this usage also appears in the 1890s. It first appears in 1894 in the sense of a well-dressed college student, a clothes horse. This usage is probably a variation on the older expression putting on the dog (1871, why dog is not known, but there is a well-established slang usage of dog meaning flashy or showy from the 1870s). It quickly moved from this sense of suave sartorial splendor to proficient, accomplished and eventually to its modern association with extreme sports and risky action."

And then promptly falling in the water while your boat sails away? Isn't that how it works Jake? Hahaa, you'll never be able to match me catrobatics! But...you are more than welcome to try, so that at least I can laugh in your general direction. Ha! See you at Outback....
Trey
N20 873
Layline Rigging

Jake: see attachment

Trey:

THATS NOT FAST!!!! :P

Trey, You yutes definitely have it all over us old folks! Is that break dancing on the wire? Tad wasn't rapping was he?

That wasn't me :P

I do not approve of such shenanigans while I'm on the boat. Trey may steer most of the time, but I run the damn boat, and crap like that don't fly with me :P

As the one doing the "catrabatics" in Trey's picture, let me enlighten everyone. The reverse trapeeze maneuaver or "handstand" as some like to call it, which is expertly demonstrated in the picture, is a new tactic for increasing the leverage of the crew on the wire to counter the heeling of the boat. By placing ones hands on the hull instead of the feet, one shifts one's center of gravity outward thereby incrasing the force they are able to apply.

Granted it takes some practice. But the sooner everyone realizes how effective it is, the sooner we can all look forward to the problem of sheeting in with our teeth and steering with our toes.

See you all at Outback
-Alan Stewart

P.S.
Handstands rule!!

OK I'll accept that your thights are heavier than your torso, but please explain for us how you run the mainsheet while doing the "handstand" to maximise RM??