I have now been in the lucky position of having recently sailed several boats with a view to buying a new boat - and trialled both the Stealth and Spitfire at weston this weekend in F4



My requirements: A cat with spinnaker which I was able to sail single handed in light winds (main or main plus spini) which would still have sparkling performance, two handed (3 sail) in a blow.



I tried the Hobie FX1 - which sailed well (for description see hobie 17 thread) but my major concern was the difficulty in righting it in zero wind solo (fine - but I would nead the security of a righting frame). The Inter 17 was considered but neither it nor the hobie meet my dual handed requirements.





The stealth was a great responsive boat. Single landed it sails well and its light weight means the acceleration in gusts is excellent. (the lightest boat I considered by far) The spinnaker retrieval system into the tramp pocket is neat, and very feasible to do single handed. I much preferred the pole/pully uphaul system outside the spinnaker pole (rather than integral), and I understand JoHn Pierce is introducing a system where the mast rotation can be controlled from the trapeeze.



The Tramp was very new (and very slippy) - but very uncluttered - and the boat tacked well without a jib. I am not sure the performance is quite up with the A class boats, but then they don't give you an option of three sails/twin wire fun.



The boat I tried had the T foil rudders - which on the flat water didn't feel any difference to standard ones - the boat showed absolutely no tendency to nose dive (so maybe they were doing something).

When the T foil rudders lock down pins are released prior to going ashore the rudders tend to lift up - so it is quite a knack coming ashore with one hand pushing the windward rudder down to ensure you are still able to steer.

Also If you suddenly run aground with the rudders locked down life may become interesting .



I personally would consider purchasing the T foils when sailing in chop and use a standard kick up rudders when sailing on uncertain shores.



I then moved on to the spitfire - which was an equally wonderful boat. I noticed this also had the same lightening acceleration (to be fair the stealth may be slightly faster - mine didn't have a jib at time of test and is lighter). It seems to have more buoyancy at the front and felt extremely similar to the Hurricane in feel - perhaps minus the way the hurricane sometimes stalls upwind - but then we turned downhill and all 5.9 simularities ended - it just flew! In the F4 conditions of test - if you don't bear away quickly enough the bows do dig in a little but then pop up without any serious risk of tripping up/pitchpole. I am sure the Spitfire in light winds is managable singlehanded, but its extra weight will make it more difficult to right (the Reg White stable offer the Shadow as their singlehander)



Summary: Both boats can be adequately depowered with loads of downhaul to make them manageable in a blow. Both boats are faster on the water than by Hurricane 5.9.

Both boats are tremendous fun - and sailable by anyone wishing to move on from D16/18 or H16.





The F16 situation in the Uk seems wonderfully served at present. If you want a boat you can race singlehanded (primarily) or 2 up and be at the front of the cat fleet buy a stealth. If you want a one design cat class with lightening speed from an excellent stable (Reg White/Loday) to race with your teenage children buty a Spitfire.



In the Race I watched in a good Force 4 was won on the water by the Spitfire (just ahead of an A cat) .... and the Stealth would have been thereabouts had it not been delayed starting talking to prospective purchasers!





I haven't yet decided - but at least it is now down to two boats! I was pretty certain on the stealth - but my 15 year old is exerting considerable pressure for one design racing (the Spitfire numbers in the UK are increasing rapidly) ....We will see who REALLY makes the decisions in my household!





Huw Thomas

Huw



Stop!! Don't decide until you sail a Taipan 4.9.



These are a superb boat designed from the outset to be sailed 1up or 2up. They are a nice light boat - 95kg approx. cat rigged and 105kg sloop rigged. Not sure of the weight with a spinnaker.



Easy to right on your own and very, very fast boats. A real buzz to sail.



Berthos

How can I try a taipan in the UK??

I'll try and find out how you can try a Taipan in the UK.

I'm in Oz but as I understand it you guys can just jump in your cars an drive to Germany for the weekend. That may be one way.

Look at: http://www.taipan-sailing.de/english/index.html

Some nice photos on this site.

or contact the German agent for Taipan.

Gebhard Peitz
An der Ackerwinde 8
D-91161 Hilpoltstein

fon: +49 9174 492838
fax: +49 69 791200836
mobil: +49 173 5651045
e-mail: info@taipan-sailing.de

or contact Helen Sharrock at Australian High Performance Catamarans. They are the manufacturers.
[email][email protected][/email]

If any one else can help please do.

I've attached a nice photo of a cat rigged Taipan 4.9 for you to look at. This photo was taken at the Australian Taipan Championships in Adelaide South Australia.

Do you know of any used Taipans in Australia? Almost all on the Taipan Association and Boyer sites are sold.

Thanks,

Michael C.

Michael,



It pays to keep an eye on the yahoo taipan group.



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taipan/



There are regularly used boats appearing there. At least three 4.9s at the moment I think.



Berthos

Hello Berthos,



Welcome to this F16 class forum ( to which the Taipan 4.9 design functions as the foundation boat ), from your comments I gether that you are new to the F16 concept. For more info go to www.geocities.com/F16HPclass/



Indeed the Taipan 4.9 is a 1-up and 2-up design as is the Stealth F16 or the Bim F16. But isn't the min weight of the T sloop 102 kg's now ? Anyways, these three boats (including the Taipan) are the foundation to which the lightweight F16 is being build.



I just sailed the Taipan design, with spi ofcourse, in the USA last weekend and I liked it alot especially in 1-up mode with spi.



Micheal did so too as was hooked immediately. To bad he can only afford second hand boats. He is looking really hard for a second hander in AUS. A few second handers from the AUS would really help the USA Taipan / F16 class; maybe you can help us out.



I would redesign the jib setup when a T with spi is chosen when sailed 2-up. OR opt for the Guck snuffer system and leave everything standard per T4.9 rules.



I do think however that it may be difficult to get a Taipan to Huw or Huw to a Taipan for a testdrive. As you said, Gebhard is in Germany and my own homebuild F16 which is actually a Taipan 4.9 with a modified mainsail and different beams is not ready yet. I will help in any way I can but I don't have a clear direction as of yet of how to proceed.



I will probably also be more convenient for Huw than Gebhard as I am much nearer to the UK. I suspect that Huw can also better contact Helen and Greg directly and arrange his stuff from the Dutch Taipan agent which is Pieter Saarberg. Pieter has been very helpfull to me.



The picture you've attached is of James Sage. And a nice picture it is too.



I hope you think this F16 concept to be interesting enought to stick around as we all would like to see more Australian participation as the T4.9 was very instrumental in the foundation of the F16 class rules. ANd you guys have alot more experience on these 16 footers as we have. Hopefully can we return the favour with respect to genakers / asymmetric spis.



With kind regards,



Wouter

Let us know what you have decided on.



Wouter

Wouter,

Thankyou for the welcome. And hello to all other members/readers of this group.

I am as you suggest new to the F16HP concept though I have been reading this forum for about the last month and have also read most of the F16HP web site. (Nice job, congratulations)

I am also quite new to sailing having only been at it for about 2 years. I've learnt to sail on a hobie 16 which I've just sold and am in the process of procuring a T4.9 for myself. Like Michael I can't afford a new one. Most second hand ones seem to be out of my reach at the moment too.

As for me helping anyone on this forum sail a 4.9 - uhh sorry I'm more in the dark than you guys. If you want to ask any questions though the group I mentioned in a previous post...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taipan/

... would be a good place.

As for helping you out with second hand boats I'm probably not alot of help to you or Michael as where I live is quite a distance from the main Taipan action. There are only a handful up here in Far North Queensland. Most of the cats are Nacras and Cobras. There isn't even a big hobie fleet here.

As for the whole concept of the F16HP I quite like it but...

Here in Australia generally the Taipan 4.9 is a strong and growing class. I think at the Australian Championships for the Taipan 4.9 there were at least as many (if not more) starters than there were for the Australian Hobie 16 championships.

I would like to see that growth continue. At the moment the Taipan 4.9 rules don't permit a spi/gen etc. and the introduction of a class where 4.9's can be sailed with them may split the class. My mind is still open on this point. The fairly consistent strong wind conditions in Australia tend to make the desire for spinnakers etc. a bit lower.

I find the whole concept of the F16hp very interesting and will continue to follow the discussion. When I get my own 4.9 I would certainly consider fitting an assymetrical spinnaker to it. I would probably wait until my sailing skills are honed a bit more before I attempted it though. Australian High Performance Catamarans do not guarantee their masts (quite reasonably) when spinnakers are used on taipans by the way.

Thanks again for your welcome and I have a topic I'd like to see discussed but I will begin it on another thread.

Berthos,



>> ... though I have been reading this forum for about the last month and have also read most of the F16HP web site. (Nice job, congratulations)



Thanks.



>>Like Michael I can't afford a new one. Most second hand ones seem to be out of my reach at the moment too.



Well, we'll take a look on the resource you've given me. Hope you find a suitable Taipan for yourself too.



>>.... As for the whole concept of the F16HP I quite like it but... Here in Australia generally the Taipan 4.9 is a strong and growing class. ... I would like to see that growth continue.





We would surely like to see the same growth happen in the USA and EU too. Others like Kirt are definately trying to make this happen. I'm personally convinced that the F16 class will stimulate the growth of the Taipan class outside Australia and make it into a world class.





>>At the moment the Taipan 4.9 rules don't permit a spi/gen etc. and the introduction of a class where 4.9's can be sailed with them may split the class.



Well, I don't think that both classes exclude one-another. The group as a whole visions a future where each F16 entry has it's own one-design class race scene at the same time. Much like how the Hobie Tiger is both an F18 and a one-design class. Here in the EU the local racing organisations take great care in avoinding overlaps in F18 and one-design races. If anything the multirole use of the little boats will give them greater appeal.



Apart from this a pole with snuffer is easily fitted and removed again and doesn't require any serious illegal modifications changes to the basic (one-design) Taipan 4.9



An example : The new T4.9's allready come standard with two holes in the bows for the pole supportwires and a maststep that is fitted with a protrusion used to fit the pole to the mainbeam. All the American / EU sailors have to do is get a spi pole and sail and make a masthound from HT line.



Now of these minor changes are in conflict with the one-design rules.



Now when attending a T4.9 race just leave the pole in the trailor. When attending an open regatta or a F16 race, just fit the pole to the boat and rock downwind.



Another point sometimes raised is the handlebility of the F16 spi with respect to female crews and kids. THis was also on the minds of the USA sailors at springfever F16 race last weekend. I inquired withAnn Marie and Hilary about this and they felt comfortable with it after giving it a try in the first races. Really, 17,5 sq. mtr. for the spi is not that much and in no way comparable to the huge spis skiffs. We took this concern into account when deciding on the smaller 17,5 sq. mtr. spi over the bigger and faster 21 sq. mtr.



And really the Guck snuffer system as an retrofit and the Stealth snuffer system look like the answer to final crew concerns.



>> My mind is still open on this point.



Thanks, it is the same as with the Taipan itself. Try it a few times time and you'll want one too.





>>The fairly consistent strong wind conditions in Australia tend to make the desire for spinnakers etc. a bit lower.





I understand. However, in NL where I sail we have much the same conditions and flying a spi just took off a few years ago. And like many others I feel that it really added extra fun to racing and cat sailing, not only in light winds.



But, indeed the choice is on the sailors themselfs. Don't worry I'm not going to push the Aussies sailors to go for a spi. I think that they will discover it in time and in their own pace.





>> When I get my own 4.9 I would certainly consider fitting an assymetrical spinnaker to it.



I can hartly recommend it.



>>I would probably wait until my sailing skills are honed a bit more before I attempted it though. Australian High Performance Catamarans do not guarantee their masts (quite reasonably) when spinnakers are used on taipans by the way.



True, but this doesn't mean that the mast are breaky with the spi. Trick is that you should always release the mainsheet AFTER releasing the spi sheet. In short use the mainsail as the backstay. Come to think of it, there are alot of rumours on spis which are not entirely true.



Best answer is that spi are being run on T's in the USA and EU and things go very well and the female crews feel comfortable handling them. So purely from a technical point of view there is no reason why a T should not be fitted with a spi. Class matters / concerns are totally different ofcourse.



Ohh with respect to light winds in EU. Here I see F20's and Tornado sports pull chutes in windforce 6 (25 knots) and finish, also with everything in one-piece. And spis definately favour these boats over non spi boats.





>>Thanks again for your welcome and I have a topic'd like to see discussed but I will begin it on another thread.



I've seen it. I have the bookm also but I have to read-up on the topic before I can reply. So give me a while.



What do you think is the best logo of the ones presented now ?



Wouter

Phill Brander's, or a variation, gets my vote at this stage.

While the fox is quite good it reminds me of an airline we have (or had) in Australia called Emu airlines. The emu of course being a large flightless bird. The fox not particularly aquatic.

The fox is also a very destructive feral pest in Australia so I have an natural emotional opposition to it.

That said, I'm not too bothered either way by logos.

Berthos