All I can tell you is what I have seen..
A hundred or so houses sans roofs.. These were jarrah and tin or tile..
City West is in the lee of a hill if the wind is south west... and below buildings if the wind is west or north west..
However the river seems to funnel the wind up its length..

The only recording I have witnessed was off Leuwin.. In an SS34 which I believe has a 28 foot waterline length weight of 5 tonne?.. We were running at 3.2 knots under bare rigging.. Dont know the wind strength to do that..

My limit is 22 knot average. Anybody who tells you their limit is 30 + is full of BS and do not understand wind speeds.

I have however raced in 36 average gusting 42 knots. It was ugly and we did swim. Was also caught out in a 60 knot squall whilst racing and there was not a single boat standing at the end. All washed up on shore and plenty of damage.

At our nationals just gone, we had a 90 kmh (48.6 knot)squal hit at night. A 180 kg F-18 which was staked into the ground, was picked up and thrown in it's side ripping the stake out of the ground.

I would imagine that if you tied down a cat very secure, any breeze over 60 knots would see the mast come crashing down very quickly.

So another words, I am calling a lot of BS in this thread.

Stephen, IMO we were talking about max gusts.

That is what I believe everyone was talking about. Anyone going out in sustained 100knt/mph or kmh gust would be stupid in the extreame.

How do you calculate the average ?

I would say my method for deciding to sail at Grafham (3x1.5 mile lake) is wind strength(and direction), forcast, temp of air and water.

I would not be going afloat if the wind is not dropping below F6 and if there are gusts more than this I would be taking things carefully (Temps / forcast etc).
I would be coming ashore if there are many boats already upside down (don't want to make more work for the rescue services, if I was to join them), I am getting cold in any way, or there is a sustained gust of F7+8 plus.


I sail on a lake and so the waves do not play such a great part in the equation, the largest we usually get are only a couple of feet high so don't make that much difference. This also allows us to always be able to find a windward shore to land on and take sails down if required.

Sailing on the sea / large lakes is a totally different matter.

Uh...I second Tornado Alive

Hi Tom:
Third here.
A lot of bragging going on. And we're way off the original topic, but we knew that would happen just by looking at the original question.
I think there winds we all have been out in that we mebbe later wish we hadn't, and then there's what we would be willing to go out in if we knew in advance what conditions would be.
That would actually be pretty cool, then we would only go to the Events that were going to have wind.

Would be pretty sad too, I've had my absolute best sailing days sailing in conditions that were above my skill level.

Hi Scooby,

Max gust I would be comfortable in would be no more than 25 tops. I have been in much more but would not knowingly put myself in that position.

Sorry "average" was a little misleading. I mean sustained wind speed, which I believe is measured over a 1 minute period. For example if the wind meter reads over 22 knots for a sustained 1 minute period, racing would be canned.

By sailing also, I do mean with full crew (no extra) and full sail area including spinnaker. In fresh winds we also ALWAYS run the kite as it calms the boat down.

OK, think we are talking about the same thing them really. 22kts is just below F6. Agree on the kite, gotta get it up

Did i read that right?
60Kts will break the shrouds under bare pole on the beach?
in answer to the question: you live in florida, if it's not storming and you're not scared of whatever wind my be blowing ahead of the current approaching front, go on out and have fun. the 6.0 is prolly too big a boat to carelessly tip over, so some discretion is advised.
as far as sailing in high winds: the most i ever raced in comfortably was well over 22knt. average, although i agree that 22 is a really fun windspeed. we were at coyote point in the sf bay delta at a hobie points regatta. the committe boat claimed 50mph winds by the meter. the water isn't too rough there and we were on a H16. we were used to sailing the ocean at santa cruz, so the delta was pretty easy for us. it felt like about 30-35knts to me, so i expect the 50 was a peak. i have attached a picture of the day from the late 70's. i know it doesn't look that windy, but the water is protected there. so, proof positive can handle more wind in smooth water than in rough seas. granted rough seas with light wind is one of the worst senarios tho.
prolly one of the strongest winds in a race was the stilleto nationals one year in FL when a light hurricane blew through at the start. all the boats but us ended up on the leeward shore by ripley's museum. our main halyard had broken just before the gun. our skipper a former footballplayer/boxer was hand holding the jib whilst flying the hull on the stilleto 23 on a close reach or beat, i don't remeber, back to our home beach. what a day. after the wind died a bit i went windsurfing with a small sail like a 4.0 or something. i don't think the RC thought the storm would come our way.

Here on maui i believe 22k average would be like a 5.0 or 5.5 sail on a wave board and is a moderate day. The full trades aren't that comfortable for a cat, but if i had a 90% shorter rig i think it would be comfortable. the average cat is rigged for 1-22knts. in general so you can see why there is a problem with the higher winds. we have had 4 people on the boat w/2 on the wire and it was fairly comfortable. although i didn't try any death reaches. mostly i just go upwind and downwind in the big winds.
cheers

I assume that it depends on the wave conditions, time of year, who is the RC, the fleet, but is there a general level of wind that a race won't be run in?

We raced in a regatta with sustained (avg) wind of 56km/hr that if you didn't capsize you would finish top five.
Was also at one that same year that was cancelled due to 48km/hr sustained winds. Go figure. The host fleet of the cancelled one was more family oriented, not that had anything to do with the RC's decision, but we sure were disappointed.

So, the rule of thumb may be extremely different for a small inland lake, compared to a bay or ocean, whether or not there is a novice fleet, and what is the experience of the sailors in high wind conditions.

In the Worrell '02 a couple South African bloakes sailed the hell out of an I20 in 40+ MPH 20 mi south of VA Beach with jib on. They said afterward they were used to those conditions. I don't think they were lying. It was a front with a 90 deg rightie when it hit with willies around 60mph. I'm sure a few guys here remember that day, eh?

As a race officer, I suppose the tipping point for me would be when it became apparent that nobody was actually racing anymore - the oft-used "survival mode" expression. When the tactics are gone, the majority of the fleet is upside-down or on the beach, and the winner doesn't look happy about winning, you probably waited a bit too long to call it a day.

In the example I cited earlier in the thread, the breeze started out big, but manageable - I think it was mid-20s, sustained, and the F18's are heavy boats with balanced sail plans. The 35-knot gust I mentioned showed up about a third into the race and mowed the entire front half of the remaining fleet down - of the eight boats (out of 45?) that got a score for the race, some were "finished on the course" if they even seemed to be heading in the right direction, which was a marginal call, IMO. No more races were attempted that day, and many parts were sold.

I was lucky to be with one of the saltiest dogs in the game for that regatta, which is why I wasn't overly worried in the biggest breeze - we swam, but it was no big deal and we didn't break anything. If I'd been the race officer responsible, I think I would have opted for abandonment rather than finishes for that one. I think it was a responsible call to not race the next morning when boats were being blown over while parked waiting for a start sequence, though many of the Aussies and Euros at the event were grousing. That seems to demonstrate to me that the decision is pretty subjective.

Though I question the call to not abandon that particular race, it is my firm (very firm) belief that the race officer makes the determination about when to race, and it should not be subject to redress. So while my team earned a big score in that race, I never would have dreamed of trying to take away the low scores from those that earned them by filing for redress or asking for the race to be abandoned.

You won't find hard and fast guidelines except in classes that have adopted an upper wind range in their class rules - The Hobie 20 class did so after a big-air nationals in Tampa (18.7!!). Certainly there is not a specific number in the US Sailing race officer's training. Nor do I think there needs to be.

@JC - I do remember that. We'll see that boat at Tradewinds as a matter of fact, though not the "go big or go home" crew that sailed her that day.

As mentioned before, I have raced in 36 knots sustained with gusts of 42 knots, kite, crew on wire and going full noise downwind. Have also raced many races in excess off 30 knots, never hesitated to fly the kite and survived / finished the races.

However the question is not what is the max you have sailed in but what is the max you would sail in if you have a choice...... As, What would be your max limit you would knowingly put yourself out in. And to make it realistic, with regular crew numbers and maximum sail area. Not a Tornado only under jib with 4 people on board.

Agree with Stephen, original question :
"Opinions? What is the maximum wind speed you would go out in? This would be in protected waters (low/mild chop) and just for fun (and say you haven't sailed in the last 2 months)."

Like riding a bicycle, the 2 month gap should have little bearing on windstrength you feel comfortable sailing for fun in, unless you only sail 6 times a year.
18-22knots(max gust) is probably ideal and is most catamaran`s design range. Yes we`ve all been caught out in a bit more at times. I would say 15knots sustained gusting to 18 would be the best conditions you could ask for. Unfortunatel y where I sail when it`s 15knots the gusts are going into the mid 20`s, makes it difficult to set the power and keep it on.
This is probably the biggest deciding factor together with sea / water state : gust factor of 7knots will make an average of 12knots hard to sail in (ie 5knots gusting 19, a variation of 7knots either way.) It`s much easier to sail in 22knots gusting to 25.
But in 22-25knots you really should be kitesurfing or boardsailing . I attended an informal speedsailing competition as a spectator last weekend, 22-28knots winds (measured), max speed was 42.03 on a board, and a shade over 40 on a kiteboard. Olaf Marting was on form (kitesurfing 500m world record holder, just over 41knots), and was 2nd fastest. I put my arm through my sail the day before , so will have to wait for the next event to see how slow I am.

I seem to be one of the sailors here with a lower acceptable range (no gusts over 20 solo). But if I were asked what is my cut off, I really couldn't answer it. I think we'd all want to stand on the shore and watch the conditions for a few minutes before making a call. I think back on days that I have called it and remember how long I anguished on the shore before deciding it was too much wind. I mostly cruise around though and I would probably feel added pressure if it were a race.
I also remember a day that there was too much wind and my brother-in-law was in town for a sail. He was willing and it was an onshore breeze so we rigged up and took off. It was an absolute beating. We stayed out for about 10-15 minutes and easily agreed to head back in when the jib tack blew out. I have to admit that the broad reach back to shore was AWESOME! We popped off a deck port bouncing over a wave but no damage. I won't confess to what numbers I had in my head, but when I got home and check SailFlow.com, it was only 18 knots gusting to 23 knots.
I guess the short of what I'm trying to say is that there are 15 knot days that are incredible sailing, and there are 15 knot days that I won't even consider going out in.

-Rob V.

Hi Steve and Steve -

Sorry if you think I got off-topic - I was answering the question:

High wind sailing.

Since we are on the subject of high wind sailing and PTP sails a 6.0 I thought I would give my take on it.

The 6.0 can be sailed in 30 knots + in open water conditions on an upwind downwind course if the helm and crew are experienced. It is however risky and the likely hood of breaking something expensive is very high. I would expect to average 2-300$ per day in breakages in a Curacao type venue windy with steep waves.

Here are my recommendations:
New Shrouds and diamond wires
Replace the dolphin striker and rod if it is more then 2 years old.
Replace the end fittings on your bow foil every 2 years. Make sure the end fittings on the spreader arms are not corroded; replace the beam bolts every other year
Remove roller furling for the jib. They can’t be furled reliably anyway and when they break, you demast.
Cary a spare traveler car for the main. Replace the bolts on the traveler car with titanium ones. Change them every 2nd heavy air day.
Switch to a very stiff set of lower 3 battens in the main
If you can, borrow a Nacra 5.8 Standard (not NA) jib
Buy very aggressive nonskid for the sides of the boat. You want the nasty sandpaper stuff and wear booties. Foot straps and chicken lines are good if the legs of the course are long
Spreader rake: 2.125“ 550 lbs on the outer diamonds 250 on the inner ones. Reinforce the spreader bracket where it attaches to the mast if it extends to the sail track or it will pinch the sail track. Too little spreader rake or tension will result in mast inversion and a broken mast.
Mast rake: I like about 30” in big breeze measured from the trap attachment point.
Downhaul: Maxed out, upwind in 20+ and downwind in 25+. You don’t need the power. Note that when you ease the main as you bear off to go downwind with the downhaul maxed it is terrible for the sail so your mainsail life will be dramatically affected.
Outhaul
Mainsheet: Sheet with both hands upwind. Sheet until the lowest batten on the mainsail inverts, then ease it until it pops onto the right side.
Main traveler is eased 6” to 2feet depending on wind speed. The more you ease
Jib cars go all the way outboard and fairly far back. Sheet as hard as possible. Jib downhaul is on hard all the time.
Daggerboards are up 1/3 upwind and downwind

UpWind in 25-30+, the driver keeps the mainsheet. In a big puff the crew eases the jib and the skipper heads up. If you ease the main without easing the NA jib (large) you will bear off and flip every time. In a good blow the jib has a lot more power then the rudders. In big waves, be careful of getting your weight too far back or the wind under the trampoline will capsize you over backwards. Trapeze as low as possible. You need every bit of righting moment you can get. You should be getting slammed by a wave every 30 seconds or so if you are low enough. The crew should take most of the abuse so the skipper can drive

When it is very windy, don’t be afraid to wait at the windward mark for a lull before you bear off to go down wind.
First make sure both sailors are at the extreme rear of the boat. Wait for a wave trough Ease main and blow jib completely. Turn down hard and fast. Do not go forward to undo downhaul, set rotation, etc. don’t [censored] with it. Keep your weight all the way back. You will basically be sailing dead downwind. The jib may flop over to the other side. If it does head up the minimum it takes to keep it on the same side as the main. Keep both hulls level. You need both bows for buoyancy. Have the crew hand hold the jib and release it completely in a big puff. In big waves, be very careful not to stuff into the back of a wave. If you do the bowfoil will hit hard and may break- leading to a dismasting. The bowfoils seem to take 2-3 big hits before failing. In 30+ knots, you will pitchpole about 1 in 4 times when you jibe, so don’t do it any more then you have too.

You will find that if your tolerance for broken gear is high and you wallet allows it; sailing in big air is a lot of fun. The more you do it, the longer you can sail without going into survival mode. With a little practice you can crush anyone that is in survival mode if you are still racing.

On the 6.0, carry a spare mast, sails, bowfoil, rigging, rudder, dagger board, rudder casting tiller crossbeam and hotstick should get you through most breakages.

Good Luck
Eric Anderson

Eric-
Thanks for the advice. I went out again yesterday and once again it was a little too much. I usually stay "safe" by pinching almost until the sails luff (making about 8-9k) until I get back to shore. I would be more aggressive, but the water is a little chilly right now. It would be interesting to race in conditions like that... but 30+ knots? Don't think that is for me... yet

see how it ends....

http://www.cat-sail.co.il/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=19

Yes, we've seen that before. You let that much mainsheet out with the Spi up, the kite will pull the mast down.

Simple as that.