Zee,
I can't help but notice that you learned to sail a cat on an H-16. I am learning now and trying to decide on a boat. I am looking for a Mystere 4.3 but there are not many around. It has a spi. I am not ready for that yet but am pretty happy to have it there when I am. But... I was offered a good deal on an H16. I weigh 58kg. Do you think a girl my weight and in good shape could right one? How did you get it in and out of the water. Did you always have help? I would also be solo most of the time and was concerned that it would be too much to wrestle with.

Wendy:

Get the 4.3. There are three here: in the catmarans for sale section www.thebeachcats.com I bought one. You will have to register to see them. There is one in NC for $2500 and one in Fla for $3200. A LOT new design than the 16 and you can learn spinnaker which every beachcat is going to and a LOT of fun. Ashleigh and I went out on a 18 SX two weeks ago and it was a blast. TRUST me you will tire of the 16 fast. I started on one. Good boat back in 79 but outdated now.

Doug and Ashleigh Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Msytere 4.3
www.tcdyc.com

Nice choice Doug, that M4.3. Saw it as springfever regatta a while back (Johns boat) looked like a really nice package.

That 2500 USD M4.3 has your name on it Sunny. Mighty attractive in your situation I think.

Wouter

I looked there and missed the one in NC. Thanks Doug! I just sent them an e-mail

I think you are right Wouter.

Hey, what's a Wouter? Is that a nickname or what?

Sunny,

Its the inverse of "Plunger"

as used in context-

"I'd use the bathroom but there seems to be a large wouter in the basin!"

"The drain was all stopped up until someone came and pulled the wouter out"

Wendy:

I am paying $3000 for a 2002. $2500 for a 2003 is a great deal, JUMP om it. I think they said they made a lot of improvements after the Nationals where my boat came from. Join this:
http://mystereowners.org/mystere/
There is a lot of info here and a yahoo user group you can join. The link is on the right side so the screen. They have been real friendly and informative to me. Go to our site sometime. www.tcdyc.com

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Mystere 4.3
www.tcdyc.com

MauganH17:
That is probably not called for. I did not know that you would stoop to that. There is no Wouter in my dictionary so I am assuming it is his name. There are plenty of Wouters in history. Hope I am right and MauganH17 is not.

Good grief,
I just wondered if it was a nickname. Sunny is a nickname that I got tagged with growing up because I was always happy. I wondered if Wouter meant something too.

wow, a lot of people seem to have broken their funny bones as children.

My nickname is pingpongball-on-a-toothpick.

Yeah, well...that and Peck--------- oh nevermind.

Sunny,



Ok I would definetly go with the suggestions mentioned above because you WILL tire of the H16 very quickly. The only reason I got it was because I was told that if you can sail a H16 then you can sail anything and other cats will seem like a dream.



Honeslty, no. My weight is 70kg and I have trouble righting the H16. Im in good shape (I have a trainer that keeps me fit .. she comes 5-6 days a week 2 hrs each day). Yet I still find righting the H16 to be such a hassle. I have to climb back on the hull using some ropes then lean back to right it.



Thats not really an issue with me because I live by the ocean and I have something similar to a garage that I keep my cat in. Its only a few meters to the water.



I solo on the H16 all the time so thats not really something you should be worried about.

I hope that helped

Wendy:

Order this:

http://store.catsailor.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jropdpmoo

For righting problems. Putting one on the 4.3. Just for safety, NEVER sail alone. ALWAYS have another boat around.

Make some of these. A lot cheaper that buying CatTrax unless they come with the boat you buy. Easy to move boat around.

http://dgaleana2.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=tips&action=display&thread=1143785090

This will solve the two problems you are worried about.

Did you get any response from the guy in NC ? $2500 is a steal!!!

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Mystere 4.3
www.tcdyc.com

I shall check with my parents but I don't think they were giddy when they named me.

Wouter

It is a pretty old Dutch name, yes.

And before anybody asks about me last name. No, it is not derived from Hi-jinx or what ever. It orginated in midevil times with free farmers in the eastern part of the Netherlands. I can't garantee however that Hi-jinx is not derived from Hijink, however. The free farmers certainly would have pissed of a few people back then, being rich in their fortified homesteads, owning their own lands with no adherence to nobility or other bossy folk.

Wouter

Yes, we have a few those sailors at our club as well. Got tired of this nonsense and slapped one of them on an F18. The only thing he had to do was drive, we gave him an experienced F18 crew to pull "all those strings and stuff" so he couldn't blame his crew. Then we watched him burn. Capsized the boat right on the bottom mark as well. Boats swirled around him left and right.

Back at the club house over a beer he "sort off" admitted that "just maybe" the above statement "is not entirely" accurate "anymore" in todays catamaran scene.

Wouter

I hope I dont flop as badly as that guy did when I get my new cat

New modern boats aren't difficult, they are just different and H16 sailing doesn't give you much of a head start in learning to sail these modern boats. Don't get overconfident. Start in stable conditions with medium windstrength and build your skill up from there. Read up on how to handle these modern boats parallel to on the water learning. It is not difficult to learn how to handle the mainsheet, downhaul and other trim tools on these boats but you will have to know how to do it in gusty or strong conditions.

Just as a example to explain what I mean : a F16 has slightly less sailarea (main + jib) then a Hobie 16; but it goes 20 % faster meaning that this smaller rig is able to produce about 40 % more power. With the wrong trim it can even be more powerful still, this needs to be held under control. With a few simple trim procedures this is not a problem, the boat will calm down completely but you will have to know how to do it. Of course that H16 sailor in my example didn't know and got burned. On the various forums you can get alot of advice regarding these trim procedures.

A-cats, M18, F18's and others are no different. A-cats, M18's, F16 and Capricorn F18 are actually very similar in handling and trim. You can use trim advice for any of these on the other 3. Trim tips for the H16 are useless on these modern boats.

Just go for it, you learn to handle the modern boats quickly enough if you start out in the right direction from the get-go. And the extra learning/challenge is just what you are after isn't it. You won't get bored onn these boats soon.


Wouter

Hobie 16 Police Here:
Wouter has opinions, that's good. They can be interesting.
Some facts from memory are that 8 of the top ten at the recent alter cup all came from sailing a non-spin Hobie 16,18,or 20.
Edit: (Forgot Bob C on the 14 and 17)
Last years F-18 championships top 3 again came from non-spin Hobie boats. Second and third were both Hobie 16 sailors.
The current Tiger world champion came from the H14 and H16.
He won both those National championships also.
The bottom line is that good sailors/racers can learn on about any boat.
They also have a feel that can never be taught.
Think Carlton Tucker or Enrique
Technology doesn't change the need to understand sail shape and what makes the boat go.
Racing is how we can judge boat to boat.
To be a good racer, you need to know how to start. wich way to go, how to cover boats, how to round marks, etc. etc.
All this can be learned on any one design or Formula boat with spi or not.
It does take time to learn the spi boats, but my observation is the good guys and gals pick it up quick and are back in the top of the pack.

My opinions.

Here's what I learned in going from Hobie-14 to Hobie-18 to Hobie-20 to NACRA 6.0:

Similar things happen with variations that are due to the differences in designs. For example - on the Hobie-14 if you headed up in a puff to depower going upwind you could flip the boat over backward because the sterns had little bouyancy - you had to play the sheet. On the 18 and above heading up in a puff becomes an option (not to start arguments over which is the best way). You learn the diferences through looking at the design and time on the boat.

The main thing was this - things happen faster. You have an expectation of events happening at a certain speed in your current boat, and when you get on a faster boat it can get ahead of you because you are not expecting things to happen as quickly. The first time out on the 20 moving up from the 18 my crew and I had the boat get ahead of us a few times until we got used to things happening faster. It didn't take long to aclimate, but it could freak out the timid. I actually ended up in irons a few times tacking because the boat responded so much faster to helm inputs - I used the usually truck-driving approach that worked on the 18 and found the boat tacking too quickly, then backed off the helm because I thought I was tacking too fast which then left me in irons. I had to laugh at that one...

Spin sailing adds a whole other level to cat sailing that is just plain addictive IMO. Take your time, figure things out, enjoy the ride!

Start out in moderate conditions and get used to the new sensory inputs - you'll love it.

Zee:

Lost the thread on the tallest building, but I can't imagine 700,000 people trying to come and go on two bridges. Gridlock nightmare.

Doug