I have a Hobie 21 and about ... memory fart ... six? years ago I had a flat top main built for the boat. This sail weighs about half what the Hobie mylar laminate weighed and the bolt rope is smaller than the Hobie, which looks like about a half inch.

Each year the sail is harder to pull up. Two weeks ago, at a regatta, I spent about forty minutes trying to get the thing up high enough to latch and finally had to abandon and go back to the (very) old Hobie sail.

When we are hoisting the main there are wrinkles along the luff exept where the top two battens meet the mast, about two feet down from the headboard. So I think it's binding where the top two batens meet the mast.

Are all flat top sails much harder to hoist than pinheads?
Am I getting weaker?
Is there some fundamental truth I'm missing.

Charles <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It could be that the smaller bolt rope is getting wedged in the luff groove. A lot of batten tension can also cause a lot of resistance as could dirt and crud in your mast groove (especially if you've ever used a lubricant.

I would clean the mast groove first using a wooden dowl with a screw in the side of it. Glue some fine scotch-brite to the down and run it up and down the mast groove in the mast by holding the screw. If you get a lot of dirt, use water to clean thuroughly. Then, wrap a wood dowel with cloth (paper towel, scrap rag piece, etc.) and soak the cloth with McLube Sailkote (a dry lubricant that doesn't remain wet or greasy and won't attract grime after it dries). Run the wood dowl/rag combo up and down the luff groove while keeping it soaked with the sailkote. Then spray the bolt rope on the main with sailkote and things should get a lot better.

Another thing that will fight your sail hoist, is an oversized halyard or a halyard with a lot of grip. Because the mast and sail are curved, tension on the halyard tends to bind with the bolt rope of the sail being hoisted. It doesn't sound like this is the direct problem in your case, but the halyard may be pressing the smaller bolt rope into the opening of the mast and causing a wedging action.

If all else fails, I would hoist the sail to the point where it gets stuck and then tip the boat over on it's side (using pads for the hull - lifejackets, etc.). Then take a first hand look at what's going on up there.

If your luff tape is getting worn, this might cause problems hoisting or releasing the sail.

Otherwise, I dont think it is a good idea to use your PFDs as padding. It's not healthy for the flotation inside them.

Does that mast have the plastic Comp Tip? Maybe the mast track is wearing out and allowing the bolt rope to pull out a little bit, causing the binding?

Check the sheaves in the mast, both the one at the top and the bottom. These wear and then stop turning which adds considerable friction. There may be other factors, but if these wear it only makes the whole thing much worse.

Agree it may be the bolt rope or the luff tape.

Also, is the headboard eye in the same place as the old sail ?

Wrinkles along the luff indicate that the bolt rope may have shrunk. This can effect how the sail goes up. To fix it you'll need to undo the stitching at the bottom of the luff pocket, the row holding the bolt rope, and stretch the luff, allowing the bolt rope to pull up inside the pocket. You then push a short length of rope into the pocket and stitch both ropes back to the sail. It's not difficult, I do mine about every five years.

Cleaning and regular lubing also makes a huge difference.

I agree with Berny, your bolt rope needs "relaxing". The key was in your comment about the wrinkles. Cut those stitches at the bottom of the rope (and hope no dope of a sail maker stitched it way up) and slide in a new piece. You want to downhaul the sail material, not the rope. Does anyone know why they stitch the bottom at all? You will immediately perceive a HUGE change for the better in sail response to downhaul. I've had to do mine several times.

As Berny says, the bolt rope, being a "wound" rope, will, over time, tighten its windings and appear to "shrink", but instead of unstitching it, we have found that if you lay your sail out in the (sea) water with the battens loosened or out, until it is fully wet, especially the bolt rope, then run it up the mast with the boat on it's side, attach the luff tension system, stand the boat up and pull the luff tension down as far as you can (and then pull it lots more), let the sail dry out with the luff tension fully on. You will find then that the bolt rope has been “stretched” and set back to its original length, and not only will the sail go up and down easier but, your luff tension control on the water will be much more versatile.

I had one of my sails made without sewing the bolt rope at the bottom. In fact, I had the sailmaker leave a few spare inches hanging out. It was the best sail I've owned. The sailmaker wasn't keen and thought I was mad.
You are right Dave IMHO, it's the sail you want to stretch down not the rope and I too wonder why they sew them. Maybe because the uninitiated buy a new sail when they can no longer get the shape they want with the tight bolt rope. Naa too cynical <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seems to me that you would loose a lot of ability to control mast bend with downhaul if you aren't pulling on the bolt rope. Secondly, it would put considerably more stress on the sail thereby shortening it's life considerably. I suppose if you can afford to replace the sail frequently....

Hope I'm not hijacking but my problem is not the actual hoisting of the square top but the Halyard Ring releasing after a day of sailing. I pull and tug on the halyard to lift the ring off the hook at the masthead while twisting and turning the mast but it is a struggle. When finally it releases I try to figure out what I did that time to make it work but it doesn't seem to be anything any different. It just worked that time. What is the trick!?!?!?!?
Is there a better system? OR am I just destined to look like an idiot tugging on his halyard? I'm using the Murray Aussie Ring by the way.
Thanks
Greg

Try changing the direction of the knot. Mine works best when the knot is facing toward the back of the boat.

Doug

Your halyard ring problem IS a hijack and has been addressed recently and repeatedly.

Jake, am I wrong in thinking that the bolt rope is just a fat bit to keep the sail in the track (curf)? The downhaul forces should be pulling on the sail material, however straining on that material the tension might be. If the rope is stitched top and bottom and then shrinks, the sail puckers and wrinkles. When you pull on the rope the sail feels NONE of that effort and will not change shape in any beneficial way. Like Berny, I've seen sails with a long loose "tail" of unstitched boltrope extending out the bottom of the sail, anticipating shrinkage (no Seinfeld reference here).

Jake,

The leach of the sail takes about the same loading and how much bolt rope is there ?

I think that the sail material will be able to take the full downhaul loading.

Wouter

I wanted to use the word "curf" in reference to the groove in a mast that carries the bolt rope of a sail. I was not sure of the spelling so I Googled "Kurf" and got this from the Urban Dictionary site. I gotta work this one into my vocabulary. A photo would be nice. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

KURF - "When a woman wears a bra that is too small and there is excess breast hanging over, which can be seen through a shirt... "Man that chick has some nice kurf"

I thought that was called "muffin top".

I agree that the sail material can take the full load - but downhaul is the greatest threat to sail shape and the life of the sail (according to Skip Elliot). From observation, applying downhaul does stretch the sail but it also bends the mast - both reactions create a depowering effect. If you do not have the support of the bolt rope in the sail, it is reasonable to expect that you will not be able to bend the mast as much with downhaul (since now the sail is stretching more easily) and therefore will not be able to depower as much or at worst, will be applying much more stretch to the sail to reach the same level of depowering. I concede that a bolt rope will shrink as it gets older...but I think it is more of a springy effect in that they shrink but will stretch back to original length with minimal applied stress. That's my opinion for what it's worth.

Man, I keep learning something new every day.

You are thinking of the word "Kerf" which is a woodworking thing to cut a groove in a piece of wood.

maybe stupid but did you try siliconspray on the luf [while hoisting]?, Worked super for me

You guys are most helpful. I don't know what the real underlying problem is, a too small bolt rope I suspect, but it is made worse by a slightly stretchy halyard. I sprayed the sail three times with teflon sail lube and it goes up now, with difficulty. I think I'll change the halyard too.

Plus I found out about kurf and muffin top.

Thanks

Charles