Situation:

1. Sailor crosses the start at the 5-minute warning horn and continues around the race course;

2. Other 5 sailors start properly;

3. After 20 to 30 minutes, all sailors cross finish line, including the early bird, who crossed third.



Question:

Should the early bird be scored as a DNF, a DNS or a DSQ?



Specifically, when he crossed the finish line, did he in fact just cross the starting line (albeit 25 minutes late) to become a valid sailor in the race? Or is that time delay sufficient to warrant a DNS?



Alternately, can a sailor choose to disqualify himself from a race over a botched start? Or is the path of the boat the only thing that matters, not the skipper's intent? (i.e. "Your hulls crossed the starting line after the starting horn during the race, so you started, period.")



What do you folks think?



Taylor Simmons

Wicomico Beach Yacht Club (MD)

A yacht must start properly to be considered racing.DNS should be the judgement.

Thanks Catman. But I'm still unclear why the act of crossing the start/finish line (albeit after first rounding the course in our early bird's case) doesn't constitute a proper start.

Is it the time delay? the circuitous route prior to? the sailor's intent?



How is this different from someone else who shows up late, hurries to get his boat rigged, and gets across the starting line 25 minutes behind the pack, but before the other boats have finished?

The boat should be scored OCS (on course side). Score is one plus number of registered boats (same as DNS, DNF anyway). Refer to Appendix A of RRS, http://www.ussailing.org/rules/



If a racing rule is broken, the skipper must either retire or take the alternate penalty (360 turn in most cat races).



Join US Sailing at http://www.ussailing.org/membership/indivmem.htm

Interesting question.



The boat did not start the first time because she crossed the starting line before the gun. and did not take a penalty or round the end. Boats that are on the race side of the course before the start are required to keep clear of all starting boats until they get back to the start line so if the early bird did not keep clear throughout the entire race then it is a DSQ.



If you consider the second crossing a start 25 minutes late then they did not finish. (assumed).



There are 3 flags that the RC may have flown the I flag allows a restart in this case. a Z flag gives a 20% penalty and a black flag gives an automatic DSQ.

After reading all of the rules I agree that it should be OCS (if no RC Start flags) as this is the first rule to apply.

Thanks Marcreiter (and CMerrell) for your posts.



I should point out that our scoring system is a bit different: Points are good -- you get a point for starting plus a point for each boat in the race that you beat, i.e. no points for boats that DNS. (So the Early Bird's DNF/DNS distinction does indeed matter for all sailors.)



Regarding being on course side (OCS), I don't think a penalty turn can absolve you -- you must re-start cleanly. Our early bird was OCS for most of his time on the water, but happened to stay clear of all other boats on the course, and did finally cross cleanly and then retired (signaling an intent not to re-complete the course).



Marc, when you say, "if you consider the second crossing a start 25 minutes late," that's precisely the issue. Is this consideration purely a judgement call by the race committee, rather than a specific rule that governs? I.e. there is no time deadline, nor a required route (back through starting line or around the mark and through again are each ok), but, in fact, an overall judgement by the RC based on both the facts and the sailor's apparent intent. Is this correct?



E.g. Suppose a boat's side stay snaps and his mast falls just after the starting horn (but before he starts), and he is obviously calling it quits, but happens to drift cleanly through the starting line on his way back to shore, does that count as a start? Should the race committee judge that boat as DNS, since the sailor evidently gave up before starting, even though technically the boat did cross the line? (If not, then what distinguishes this example from our Early Bird.)



Finally, does it matter what the sailor himself wants? ("Please give me a point for starting since technically I did." vs. "Please give me a DNS since obviously I wasn't going to do the race.") If it's purely a judgement call, then it seems that the sailor's wishes might indeed be an element considered by the RC, as long as they were consistent in such decisions over the season.



What do you think?

Thanks -Taylor Simmons

In my opinion that is worth exactly what is paid for it. A sailors "desires" are what rules are designed to prevent from entering into race decisions.



Rule: A boat starts when after her starting signal any part of her hull, crew or equipment first crosses the starting line and she has complied with rule 29.1 and rule 30.1 if it applies.



In your example of the demasting no they did not start because the rule states that all equipment must be in its normal position. and the mast was not.



Rule:29.1 On the Course Side at the Start

When at a boat's starting signal any part of her hull, crew or equipment is on the course side of the starting line, she shall sail completely to the pre-start side of the line before starting.



IMO the rules must be taken one at a time and if there is a rule that applies then it should be used. The first rule to apply was the OCS rule. The boat with this designation must restart and must stay clear of the other boats that started properly. staying clear is defined as the other boats did not have to make any course changes due to the presence of the offending boat. (I'll assume the race committy had no start flags or we would not be having this discussion).



Rule: 29.2 Individual Recall

When at a boat’s starting signal she must comply with rule 29.1 or 30.1, the race committee shall promptly display flag X with one sound. The flag shall be displayed until all such boats are completely on the pre-start side of the starting

line or its extensions and have complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, but not later than four minutes after the starting signal or one minute before any later starting signal, whichever is earlier.



If I was on the RC then it would be my vote that based on the rules that the early bird DNS. The sailors feelings having nothing to do with it. Worth what it costs.

Thanks again, Marcreiter, for your thorough examination. I really appreciate all the insight and help in resolving the issue.



Regarding the over-early flag described in 29.2, does that four minute limit represent a specific deadline by which an Early Bird must return to the pre-start side? Or does it just limit the courtesy of raising a flag to alert Early Birds of their offense -- so the RC's arms don't get tired holding it up for the whole race?



If actually the latter, would it be appropriate for a Race Committee to enforce a four-minute deadline for any Early Birds to remedy their transgressions?



Many thanks -TTS

My understanding of the rule is that if a boat does not return to the prestart side of the line within 4 minutes then the boat is entered as DNS. a boat must start a race by complying with all of the starting rules or they do not qualify as having started.

No question that he messed up. No penalty turn would save him or we would all zoom over at the 5 minute horn, do our penalty turns and beat the pants off everyone. The real question is can he even be counted as running the race? It would only seem that he could be counted even as a late starter if he crossed the finishline in the same direction that the original race started. For example, on an upwind start, if he finished the race and crossed the line going downwind, then it seems he would be counted as never even starting at all.

Sometimes we make it so difficult.A yacht must properly start.It dosen't matter if it starts 25 min. late.It can't start early.Also its always better to start and score a DNF than a DNS.As I remember its one less point, and if it is a multiple race event with a throw out you can chuck the DNF not the DNS.