| Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: Robi]
#85515 09/26/06 07:20 AM 09/26/06 07:20 AM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL tback
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL | At Wildcat I was using 7.5 of 10 (relative scale) going to wind and no downhaul to C mark with spi'.
Sunday, practicing with no wind, I was pulled in really tight 8-9 of 10 ... of course, I couldn't test it as we abandoned the races due to light winds.
USA 777
| | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: tback]
#85516 09/26/06 08:10 AM 09/26/06 08:10 AM |
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,718 St Petersburg FL Robi
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718 St Petersburg FL | At Wildcat I was using 7.5 of 10 (relative scale) going to wind and no downhaul to C mark with spi'.
Sunday, practicing with no wind, I was pulled in really tight 8-9 of 10 ... of course, I couldn't test it as we abandoned the races due to light winds. That makes total sense. I was barely pulling on my downhaul. The speed differences were definatley noticeable. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Good info TBack. I going to need help to mark my mast. I noticed you had marks. Good thing we are having our FREE SAILING clinic for whoever wants to show up at Lake Jackson FL on OCT 7 and 8. (shameless plug!) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: tback]
#85517 09/26/06 08:14 AM 09/26/06 08:14 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348 | "What are your best go fast techniques for light wind? How do you prep the boat? Wax it or sand it? how about the daggers and rudders. Keep windward dagger and rudder up? Give me all the secrets for going fast in a lake. Thanks"
Quieter is faster. On Sunday, Tback and I were testing settings and I noticed the boat was faster and quieter when I moved forward. In my case, this was just in front of the shroud.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Pay attention! If you miss a shift in light air you'll be in irons all day. Trust me on this!
Last edited by Tikipete; 09/26/06 08:19 AM.
| | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: fin.]
#85518 09/26/06 08:27 AM 09/26/06 08:27 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | My opinion, upwind only.
Crew positions
1, Light wind and no real waves, crew to leeward hull to help lift the windward one and get well forward 2, Lightwind and some waves that are shaking the rig around, crew leeward side of the mast and as far forward as possible
Downhaul
1, Light wind it is on fairly tight 2, As soon as you start to make "proper" progress and there is a bowwave forming id consider taking it off as it this point you may have enough wind to keep the air attached to the sail(s) 3, As soon as the hulls start to get some lift I would have the DH off fully (even the odd crease in the sail att the bottom) 4, as soon as overpowered, bring the DH on again.
Mast rotation
1, very light I'll de-rotate a little to keep the sails flat 2, light (but "proper" progress) max rotation. 3, As soon as nearly powered up I rotate to the shrouds
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: WindyHillF20]
#85519 09/26/06 08:53 AM 09/26/06 08:53 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | What are your best go fast techniques for light wind? Give me all the secrets for going fast in a lake. Thanks A Hobie 18 with an SX mast and Tiger Main, right? I'll agree with Steve and Andi on the get the hull out of the water (although may not happen until upper end of light winds). The boat stays calmer, sail more efficient. The boat's shorter than the T or N20. Inland lakes can have a lot of chop (damned powerboats) and in our experience a stock Hobie 18 needed some power to help drive through the chop (very flat didn't work). I can't speak to the "modern" Tiger main. All posts good advice, there will be variables.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: NCSUtrey]
#85520 09/26/06 09:11 AM 09/26/06 09:11 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 364 Andrew
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 364 | Robbie was quite clear in telling us that sending crew leeward in light wind was pointless when going upwind. I'm not going to argue with him...his record is much better than mine, and most everyone else here as well. Robbie's mostly a T sailor? Light-air techniques vary from boat to boat just as medium- and heavy-air techniques do. My metric Nacras need to be sailed bows-down, but the 20 needs to have the leeward bow just touching the water. So it varies. Good luck.
Andrew Tatton
Nacra 20 "Wiggle Stick" #266
Nacra 18 Square #12
| | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: WindyHillF20]
#85523 09/26/06 12:04 PM 09/26/06 12:04 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | If the comtip is too bending then DON'T rotate your mast too much. Over rotations will make the top of the leech fall away too soon. Present the top of the sail with the mast stiff direction of the mast top and that is the fore-aft plane of the mast = relatively little rotation.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: WindyHillF20]
#85524 09/26/06 01:10 PM 09/26/06 01:10 PM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | Before making any wholesale changes (oops, I guess you already sort of did that) I'd go with what I knew was fast from the original setup and then try individual changes. For instance, we found the fast setup w/the 18 to be no rake (2nd hole from the top), no pre-bend. The Tiger main luff will dictate your prebend.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: maximum speed from minimum wind
[Re: WindyHillF20]
#85525 09/27/06 09:17 AM 09/27/06 09:17 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | Yes, SX mast and tiger main. Running a spin as well. The tiger main really changes the way the boat feels, its hard to get used to. I've been rotating the mast more and more to get what seems to be the right shape and the tales to flow on both sides. Have tightened the diamonds to 500lbs to get some pre-bend. Think the comptip is bending too much, squaretop seems disturbed. Have installed tell tales on the lower portion of the main but as of yet not been back in the water.Thanks so much for the great advice from all. Are you all saying that boat prep is not important? Shouldn't it at least be cleaned and waxed? One last question, mast rake for light winds- what do the tigers do? Mine is back, second hole from bottom on forestay adjuster. Forward rake requires repositioning of spin pole height on my boat. Different boats require different variations of the techniques for light air. Actually trying to get the windward hull out in very light stuff is mostly a waste. Note that I said very light. In most cases you will end up depressing the leeward hull significantly to achieve it, and the drag savings will be minimal. We've tried trapping to leeward to get the windward hull out, it's fun but useless from a speed standpoint. Just about everything else I've sailed has benefited from crew on the lee bow and skipper at or on the crossbeam, near the mast if possible. In that position the skipper should run all the sails, as it is often very inconvenient for the crew to do the jib without moving around, and the skipper can actually see what the sials are doing. Mast rake can play a big part in how far the skipper and crew need to be forward to get the sterns free. As for tacking and jibing - I've found that the attention needs to be placed on keeping the boat moving through the water, and crew weight placement can be more important here than sail handling. Worry about keeping the hulls moving through the water and getting the sails over second. Trying to do a roll tack in the really light stuff is mostly a waste. Consider having the crew cross the boat in front of the mast instead of behind can help. For the most part, stay in the middle of the course and try to take the most direct line to the marks. Chasing breezes on the outside of the course often leaves you without wind outside the course with more distance to recover. That all having been said - the Hobie-18 is a big time stern dragger, and mast rake only made it worse. In almost all conditions I found that a lot of mast rake made the boat an absolute dog downwind, even if the sterns weren't dragging. Even after I added the spin, in most conditions I ran the mast all the forward. If I raked the mast in anticipation of heavy air that did not materialize I unraked it on the water to keep from dying. Can't emphasize this enough with the 18. | | |
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