Allright, there was much discussion about the Nats but no consensus (that I could tell).

Seemed to be two "camps"- One for having with the F 18HT's and the other to have in Tampa in October over a weekend.

The pros and cons of both were discussed-

I need to tell the F 18HT group something NOW-

Personally, I think both options are viable- I KNOW the F 18HT event will be well publicized- This would be good if we show up in numbers and have fun but bad if only a few show up-

So, it's up to you all-

Please let me know ASAP-



Kirt

I vote for Tampa. When we do take WF up on his very generous offer of joint regattas, it should be when we have a commitment of a large number of boats.

For now, I think we'll have a very big turnout (relative to the class size) if we do it in Tampa, St. Pete, or Clearwater.

Michael C.

Taipan#32

My vote is Tampa Bay Area.

Mike Hagan

Tampa in October

Although I mentioned an existing October race in Dunedin as a potential race date and location, that might have problems. The race is NOT a TBCSI race, it is organized by individuals as a memorial race to one man's dad. The organizer is a woman who is, well...., often a bit of a prickly pear and likes to tell you why new ideas won't work (unless they're hers). I cringe at the thought of her being involved.



There are LOTS of alternative dates and places here in St.Pete area and lots of inertia for racing to happen. It just needs some planning. I will contact the TBCSI commodore and see if they would like to help.

I just read an TBCSI e-mail about a "proposal for TBCSI to help sponsor a regatta in Gulfport November 9-10". Michael Coffman, have you already been in touch with TBCSI's Terry Fondrick about using the F18 dates for a Gulfport race venue?



Remember, Daylight Savings expires in late October so the November date has less daytime and shorter days.

I vote for November in St. Pete Clearwater area. Dave, go to the TBSCI meeting on Friday the 19th to hear a discussion of a possible race.



For others interested in the Eric Barton Memorial it is a fun distance race at the Dunedin Causeway. The organizers are gratious enough to spend their free time to register us, run the start, take finish times, calculate Portsmouth times, provide food, and give out trophies - all for about $10!!!! Anyone who would do that so we bone heads can race is a great person in my book. Careful about the remarks or we may end up with no racing at all Dave.



Mike #213

The Barton Memorial is one of Dunedin's oldest and best attended races. I've NEVER done well in it (tough competition and jinxed with bad luck) so I'm looking forward to another try.



I thought the "prickly pear" comment was pretty diplomatic. Every time I get involved with an organized event I think of the old Simon and Garfunkel song that says, "Orangutans are skeptical of changes in their cages and the zookeeper is kindly but he's dumb." People are a weird lot.



Terry Fondrick of TBCSI wrote to me and said, "As usual we are always receptive about any sailing ideas people want to do. If we can support a Cat Sailing event that would be great."



I'll try to make the July 19 TBCSI meeting to volunteer for RC duty.

I think that for us Europeans the choice is mute as the distance between the spot is relative insignificant on the whole travel.



Personally, I will need a boat to sail on as I won't bring mine over so I will let my vote be decided my skipper. Which means that I can't garantee atendence.



I also think that it would be a good idea to combine efforts between F18HT and the F16HP. On the other hand we must prioritize and we are building the F16HP class in the USA and so a bigger turnout would be a very compelling reason to go to a place like Tampa or St pete. Our first class priority should lay with the sailors in the F16 class and a more central location to allow more of them to come.



So if we would have to decide between two lesser options than I would suggest replying to WF that we will continue to work together resulting in combined nationals but that that option in 2002 and the keys is just to much out of our reach.



That is unless we all can arrange some kind of combined transport for our boats.



It may not be the option that would be perfect, but it would be practical.



Wouter

Okay, I hope everyone read Rick's post-

I don't really want to appear "pro" either venue because I'm probably gonna get "blamed" for whatever happens no matter what we decide to do. My primary concern is for our class BUT 1) I think we need to consider that Rick helps us (and catsailing in general) out a lot and going to "his" venue would go a small way to repay that, 2) at least one of the manufacturers would prefer to be involved with the F 18HT event, 3) WF is one of the few F 16HP dealers here right now so we should support him, 4) between the publicity surrounding the F 18HT's and being in CatSailors backyard I think we would get more "exposure" there (IMO). As for the venues- I love both spots and Tampa is closer to me also (I guess almost all of us in the US!) but you guys in Tampa are still closer to Rick's than the rest of us-

Is the big issue trailing your boats, more than a weekend, or what really?



Kirt

For me, the length is something of an issue (we're talking about almost a week), and the cost is somewhat more important. I'll go wherever... although I do try to plan "biggies" like this way in advance. I would also like to support both WF and Rick. It only seems fair. But I'm not sure whether this year or next is when we should start with a "real" nat's. How many F16's are we talking about if we do it at Rick's? Even though I live 0.3 miles from one possible venue, distance is not a big deal for me. Any drive time I save wouldl be far outweighed by the amount of time that I and the other Pinellas County skippers would spend prepping to host.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Michael C.

but I vote for Ricks regatta.

Will the F16HP Nationals be a distance race or round the bouys?



Are we sailing uni or sloop or will there be classes for both?



If we sail in the Tampa Bay area, has someone committed to managing the race and do they have the support to make it happen? If the F16HP class needs to commit to a date and a place for the nationals soon, maybe we should go with Key Largo since someone has already commited to manage the race and started to plan for it. I'm concerned that committing with Tampa Bay on the belief that a race can be put togther may fall though and the F16HP class starting out on the wrong foot.



Jennifer Lindsay

Taipan #262

Jennifer,

Here in Key Largo there will buoy races. That is the norm for major regattas -- in fact, I don't ever remember a distance race for any Nationals or North Americans.

Rick

Forgot to add that driving time from Tampa to Key Largo is around 4.5 hours.

Rick

Welcome to this forum Jennifer and a good point you make. Thanks alot for that; hope you'll find this forum a good place to meet other Taipan/F16 sailors and discuss related topics.



Allow me to add to the point you made :



It has just come to my attention that Rick really wants to put out the race noticification soon and that is he is in effect waiting for us to choose which way we go. Isn't that an honour for us ! But we can't stretch it much longer or else the courtacy given will grow thin.



I have refrained from really voting up till now as I'm not a US based sailor and I didn't have a boat to sail there myself. However Rick has graciously offered me the use of his Taipan 4.9 (again a gracious offer) so I'm set and Ricks place has definate advantage for me personally.



Maybe any Ohio guys or somebody else wants to just fly in hop on and leave the worrying to somebody else. You can't get easier than that.



However with this aside there are other more compelling reasons why I opt to write this message and make a case for the venue at ricks place.



The involved parties have made a strong case for the Rick place venue in personal conversations. In effect the venue at Ricks is just short (of us!) of becoming the lightweight show case of the year as the A-cats will have their big race right after us with attendence of the greats like Goran Marstrom. This will make the Ricks place regatta an extremely atractive show regatta for all the class involved and in particular US F16's. We can look upon it as sort of a congress of lightweight boats and the exchange of idea's on them and to showcase ourself to the worls and attending designers. This venue and the contacts that go with them will most likely show our potential to them aswell as strengthen mutual contacts which can only lead to expanding the design basis of the class as well as the numbers of sailors.



In short, these considerations may well be worth the extra drive down to the keys.



Personally I'm aware of some sailors opting for the Ricks regatta that have not publically expressed this.



Also the F18HT class and F16HP class are really growing towards a complementary setup due to the differences in characteristic of both designs. Strengthening this complementary aspect can really work well for both classes

and from what I know it WILL work VERY well.



In short what I'm trying to say here is,without disclosing things that I'm not at liberty to close, that Ricks regatta really does have, multiple and longterm, compelling positive feedbacks to our class that may not be obvious now. And every single one of them is well worth the extra effort.



Personally and even more so in the in the role of chairman of this class I strongly advice opting for the Ricks place venue and go with it all the way with all the energy and enthousiasme we have.



I advice and not decide this as the final decision is yours and yours only. (Kirt and I will only decide when the vote resembles a draw)



Please take these considerations into account before putting in your final vote.



I will contact Rick again for the precise deadline before which our decision must have been made, but rest assured that it will very soon.



WIth kind regards,



Wouter

I would like to bring my 2 cents worth to this debate, I know we are across the pond but some points that you should consider are:



1.) The class will benifit by association with this event which looks like it will be quite high profile and well run.



2.) The logistics are already in place, and whilst I'm sure the other options could also produce a good regatta, it will need a lot of work in a fairly short period of time to match Ricks offer.



3.) How many people would actually attend if the event is at Ricks, we intend to go if it is at Ricks.



Even if only four or five attend, it will be a good showcase for the boats.

Just like John I realize that I'm across the pond but I'm willing to cross that for such a race as we are talking about.



I think that John and Jennifer make good points and some sailors were so kind to offer the boats and trailor for charter to me or any other capabale sailor.



Just like John implicitly expresses, can we have both races ?



I wouldn't mind wether we have our nationals at Tampa or Ricks place if that is what the US community decides but I do think that being there at the F18HT nationals is both fun and very attractive in long term effects.



So I propose to authorize as a class BOTH races of which it may be decide that Tampa is the more important one with respect to US championship. I also suspect that we will be able to get at least 5 boats out at Ricks place. And maybe 6 when we ask W.F. politely wether we may use his Bim F16 as a charter.



I mean Chuck and Micheal C have expressed that would go to Ricks place. Well, I'm inclined to go to Ricks place as I can sail Ricks Taipan 4.9 and I would stay around for a few extra days and help out with the other races (making a small holliday of it) And I also have confirmation of two other teams that are likely to come but don't want to express that publically. Jennifer ? Would you consider comming if an attendence like this would materialize ? Kirt ?



Even as a normal F16 calender race the races at Ricks place would do us and the class good.



So, Can we put the F18HT regatta on our US race calender next to our "nationals" at Tampa ?



Wouter









1.) The class will benifit by association with this event which looks like it will be quite high profile and well run.



2.) The logistics are already in place, and whilst I'm sure the other options could also produce a good regatta, it will need a lot of work in a fairly short period of time to match Ricks offer.



3.) How many people would actually attend if the event is at Ricks, we intend to go if it is at Ricks.



Even if only four or five attend, it will be a good showcase for the boats.

Kirt

After reading some positive points I would like to change my vote to hold the US F16HP Nationals to Rick's Place . Formula Classes should try to race at the same venues.

Mike Hagan

T 4.9 221

Wouter - sounds good to me. I am wondering how many to the Tampa 4.9s have shoots and would be sailing 16hp. It might be that the 16hp Nationals could be at Ricks and the T4.9 Nationals be in Tampa if all of the Tampa boats don't have spins?



Chuck