They use to split the fleet at State level anyway, into lightweight and heavyweight boats, because most of the originals or older boats were about in the 70 - 80 kg range in the platform, as opposed to the newer boats that were 20kg lighter, don't know if they still do that or not.

But nowadays ply boats can be built to the minimum, the originals used to have 2 x 4mm ply mid decks (8mm all up) little things like add up to heavy boats, and Gaboon wasn't around then, which helps keep boats lighter now.

Ply boats can be made as stiff, as light and as fast as glass boats, theres just a little bit more maintenance required. You can build in the tramp tracks and chainplates and have a hard time telling the two apart.

Regards

Hi all,

there are still, trophies for heavy weight boats within the class. This years Nats also show Heavy weight winner.

With the Knowledge it should be possible to make a timber boat as fast, but who knows? Rob is building one at the moment, to replace his Denholm hulls. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Rob how about giving the other guy's interested in timber boats some ideas. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Most important in this discussion is to remember, the differences in speed we are talking about are relatively small, actualy manouvreability is probably the bigger difference <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. The difference between different hull shapes performance, is much less than the difference in sailers ability. I placed 5th. at 2000 Sloop rig Nats and won sloop rig states later on a timber heavy weight boat, in fact it was heaviest boat in fleet, built in the 80's. Then changed to Cat rig on a Boyer minimum weight boat, which I won states and placed second at Nats winning 3 heats. The performance difference when I sailed a Denholm allowe me to win a couple more heats, thats all.

What I am trying to say is, if the guy imediatly ahead of you is on Denholm shaped hulls and you are struggling to pass him on older shaped hulls:p, then the newer hulls will make the difference, but you have to be there first.

Hope this doesn't sound like blowing my own trumpet, that is not the intention.

Most important is to sail what you have to it's potential and beyhond. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I couldn't agree with you more, Gary. I believe too much emphasis is placed on the hulls, rather than the rig / sail combination (and of course, skipper's ability!). Providing the underwater gear is in good nick (foils / blades), then the hull shape is only going to make a very small difference - such that an error in a tack will more than blow any hull shape advantage.

After all, how many new boats also end up with new sails? Is it then the hulls, or the sails that make the final impression?

Cheers

Steve

Hi Gary and Steve

I agree, I hope that I was sort of saying that it must be BS, that its not worth building if you can't build a Denholm or Bovis shape hull, earlier on people were saying that the Boyer hulls weren't recommended to anyone wanting to get their hands on a mould, but like you say, its more ability I reckon. But I've just been relaying the information on here that the people closer to the top have been saying.

How many titles has Bob Wilson won? Were they all on his Bovis hulls? I don't think so. Looks like it might be the driver <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Regards

There is someting to be said about having the fastest boat on the course. A finely tuned boat performs well with the appropriate sailor and works better if it can accomodate the sailors good and bad habbits but there sometimes is that boat which is an extra special boat.
This boat quietly glides past other top boats and forces a smile to your face. If you tried to copy all the settings to another boat or replicate the boat you would most likely fail to recreate this boat. If you damage this boat it would never be the same.

My father, many years ago dominated a class with such a boat for many years and I cant describe how many fond memories I have crewing for him.
I hope to own such a boat one day.

To experiment with hull design or choose a well proven hull shape is most likely only a small contributing factor, but without this you may never find or own such a boat as I have described.

Good luck I hope you build a boat that would suit a nice set of racing stripes...Red or lightning yellow <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Steve,

good to hear from you, how is "Just Do It" treating you. I know the boat well, as it dominated at Latrobe Valley Y.C. where I was a member for years. Paul always kept it nice <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Gary

You are right.........Paul did a wonderful job of looking after the boat. I bought it primarily to sail it cat rigged. Am going to order a new cat sail in the next couple of weeks or so. However, in it's native sloop format, two out on the wire, the boat shows a good turn of speed.

Steve

i very much dought that you coude make the ply conforme to the shape of the modern fiberglass mossie

There is a guy in Adelaide that has built a boat very similar to the latest glass boats.
It can be done.
As for the shape choices I think that a boat with more volume will help a heavier sailor be competitive in more conditions.
Regards
Chris

There shouldn't be reason a ply boat couldn't be made to the modern shape, so I don't agree with that one, Kats.

Theres a heap of modern designs that are still built in ply (as a alternative to glass) and the shapes achieved are pretty much identical.

Regards

Hi all, yes the timber boats can be built the same as the Faye shape and it has been done. A timber hull was made by Russell Denhlom and Larry Faye used this hull as the plug to make the mould.

As for a timber boat not being as fast as a glass one, I don't agree. If you have a look at the results over the pass ten years a number of timber boat won over glass, Kevlar and Carbon boats.

Three years ago the Vic sloop rig states title was won with a timber boat that was built in the late 80's early 90's by Bruce Carter. The crew was Phil Mann and Callen Ridge sailing “Loose Screws”

Russell coudent get the shape he wanted of the plans so he boged it to bet the rocker that he wanted. And to make it a bit fuller. I think the plans now have more options

Thats how most modern designs get the keel shape and fullness required, I have done this with my boat also, the amount of filler used is minimal.

Regards

i dont belive filer is required to make the boat fuller as my hulls have come up verry full up front, fuller than denholm hulls, which acording to one former mossie champ it is to full up front and it will hobbie horse in the chopy waters. this was achieved by overlaping the tape 1800mm from the front instead of 2050 mm as set out in the Phil Pierce instructions. i found this left a small holow in the hull profile up the front which was fixed by planing the front down to create the right curve and then re taped on the outside.

Just reading back what I wrote earlier, I should clarify, that the filler is used to produce a fair and even curve, so it belends the hull sides with keel line, because the fibreglass tape leaves a flatish surface from the outside edge of the keel tapes to the keel line.

I hope I'm saying what I'm try to say. When doing this it would make it more bouyant I would have thought, but I guess its more a cosmetic fairing of the hulls.

Regards

Keeline fairing