It's slow on the forums so I thought I would start a discussion. So I wondered about what? Best I can come with at short notice is that my tacks are slowed down by the fact that the trapeze hook always seems to be wrapped around the sidestay when I want to clip in. I know some of you have put a lot of thought into systems and now wonder if you have mananged to resolve this. Or is this just a technique issue?


Only 5-6 months till the ice goes out.

do you sail Uni or sloop?

I assume you're talking about the rear trapezes which come through a fairlead an inch or so behind the sidestay? I do occasionally get them wrapped around the wrong side of the sidestay but I don't find it a big problem. I just take a little care when putting them on - it doesn't take a moment to sort out if you spot that it's happened - but I think that the cause is flicking the trapeze of the hook too quickly so that it flies off and does a circuit of the sidestay. Occassionally sailing with a crew teaches you to take it off carefully and place it next the sidestay <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How much tension have you got on the trapezes?

Paul

As Paul mentions, usually if you put more tension on the bungee cord it will sort out the tangle while you are sailing on the other tack....usually.

Well I was going to say. If you sail UNI, just get rid of the foward most trap wire. Then just use the aft most and move it back. I moved mine to mid tramp, it never gets tangled and it is probably half an arm length away from where I position myself after a tack.

I guess largely I was thinking of the times I was sailing Uni. I have been trying to start the tack while on the wire so I tended to want to disconnect in a hurry. I would already be through the wind before I was unhooking.
Sailing with a crew it was always less of an issue as I would be on the tramp to tack.

I will try to tighten up the bungee. It is probably loose. I hate the forward pull feeling.

So Robi, you moved the fairlead aft and left the tramp grommet in the same place?

Bruce yes I did. I am not sure where your mast rotation controls are. But on my boat they were half way between the front and rear crossbeams. When I moved my mast control cleats foward (first blade in the US to do this mod, and I am changing it again, stay tuned) it left the aft grommet open. So I am now using that grommet for skipper trap and I moved the crew trap where the skipper trap used to be.

If you look to the starboard hull and notice the trapeze wires, you will see both my trapezes are aft of the sidestay.

I really like the standard positioning. Having sailed a Tiger for a few years where the trapezes aren't lead to the edge of the deck, the traps on the Blade are really nicely out of the way. On the Tiger we found it impossible to move around the deck without getting tangled up in the wretched things.

Putting the rear trapeze any further back would be in the way for when I come out of a tack as I'll be sat up against the shroud. One thing I intend to try when I get a moment is using a longer piece of bungee and running it around the dolphin striker, in an attempt to reduce the forward pull when trapezing downwind.

Paul

Paul,

indeed best way to reduce forward pull is to length the bungee attached to the trap wire.

In my experience it is best to have the bungee go underneath the tramp then run to the other side, run over a small block that is attached to the underside of the tramp then back to the first side, run over a small block under the tramp there and only then go to the trap line on lee.

This increases the bungee length from about 2.5 mtr to roughly 4.25 mtr. The pull on the line is now much more constant, meaning you have more pull on the trap line when it is not in use while having less pull when the trap line is used.

The next step is using 4 mm bungee line instead of 5 mm. This seemed to have solved the remainder of the issues.

Attaching the small blocks to the underside of the tramp can be done by stitching small loops to it (sailmaker) and then using a tie wrap to attach the block to the loop.

Wouter

I did just as Wouter explained. My only difference is I tied a line under the tramp going from the front crossbeam to the rear crossbeam and the blocks are running through that same line. The lines serves to hold the blocks in place and as a tie off point for the bungee cords.

I also run four independant trapeze bungee cords, this is like a backup system. If I lose the starboard trap I can still trap out on the port side because again, they are all independant.

So you moved your rotation controls to beside the front beam? That is one thing I haven't been crazy about. It is definitely optimized for crew control. For the uni sailor it just isn't working. I have been reading about the rotation trigger systems that are either on or off. They are seperate from the limit adjustment. That interests me. It would also resolve the need to put all the rotation slack on the starboard side before every race because I always slack on starboard tack before the windward rounding and tighten on port tack before the leeward mark. I hate getting set to round up and find out that I didn't recleat the starboard rotation limiter.

Exactly. Its good for sloop racing, but sux for uni racing. I am installing a cleat on the mast rotation control arm and I will experiment with it and see how it works. I am going to tie the mast rotation line to the dolphine striker through the grommet on the tramp, then through the cleat on the rotation arm. The line will then be bungeed to the rear beam where HOPEFULLY it will be easily accesible.

I will report in a few weeks how it works.

A simple fix to both the Blade and Tiger trap problems is to run the bungee through a turning block on a 5" pigtail tied to the shroud chainplate (instead of the normal fairlead on the blade).

I've attached an example photo from the 2005 Tiger Worlds, and I used this trick at the Tornado Nationals this year to solve our trap-around-shroud problem.

Eliminating the heavy adjusters and using round trap handles also can help.

Glenn,

That pigtail is for the crew trap line. I like the one the skipper uses. It just comes up through the grommet in the tramp and keeps it clear of the shroud. There is no added block, just route without going to the fairlead at the edge of the hull. I would give this a try before anything else because it is so simple. If you like it, remove the fairlead so you won't sit on it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. Its a PITA...literally!

Nah - that's what I hate about the Tiger setup. We found it impossible to get our weight forward without getting tangled up in the traps. The Blade setup keeps them nicely out of the way - occasionally unwrapping it from the shroud is a small price to pay.

Each to their own, I guess, but I can't remember a light wind sail on the tiger that didn't involve many cries of "f**king trapezes".

Paul

The Mosquito trap is (almost) ideal in placement - Crew wire comes out of the main beam and the Skipper wire exits from the tramp about two thirds the way back.
The crew can use the slightly longer rear wire on reaches and the only forward pull is from the mast! (or sudden deceleration).
This puts the wire far enough from the shroud so it doesnt tangle and there is enough room to get around it when going about.
...now if I could only stop the stainless parts from smacking me in the head when not hooked up...

Gosh, I simply can't imagine Ann swearing like that <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Indeed not - that was with Steve on the Tiger. Language on the Blade is nothing short of exemplary at all times. No, really. Nothing at all like these fine fellows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHxFBjkaoYM

(the description of the gust at around 2:50 is nothing short of... Australian <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Paul

Wow, that video was sweet! There gybe was done and over with in a second or two!

Nice windward takedown too! Do not try that at home on your cat! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />