"a la Kilkenny"...and its better than the Ab Roller for trimming the extra gut ballast

http://www.asontv.com/products/1057008692.html

Simon, I can see some sense in what you're saying; the faster you go the lower you can sail due to the apparent wind. However, if you're not on a pure run due to course or wind shift would you sit in to reach a high mark and not trap due to the above? I seem to be doing the opposite, trap to sail high and sit in to sail low. I wish I could race against other f16's as often as they do at Datchet, this is the only way to get the best answers.

Hi all,

my guess on breeze is about 8kt with a bit more in gusts, I am 90 kg. and this would almost be enough for me to trap, so I would advise lighter crews should be trapping if wind is at all consistent, in that breeze you can do around 15 kts. boatspeed if trapping which makes it worthwhile.

I would not trap if the wind was very shifty, as you can gybe quicker to follow the shifts and gusts if sitting on tramp, this is especialy true for sailing one up, as it takes longer to gybe. I tend to sit on tramp and go deep as possible though, I have never found hiking to give good VMG. Either trap for max. speed, longest distance to bottom mark. Or sit in for max. depth, shortest distance to bottom mark.

The defining reason to trap is keeping the leeward bow above water, I get to a point sitting on tramp where I have to trapeze off the back to keep the bow up. But once it gets too hairy on trap, it becomes time to sit back on tramp and oversheet main to depower, go slower, deeper and keep bows up.

The defining reason to stay on tramp, is that in the lulls you have to head too high and oversheet spinnaker to keep hull flying, this is bad VMG time, not good.

Just my experience, for what it's worth.

Regards Gary.

Hope this makes sense.
Copied from post 22/11. Re. Video of this event watch Paul fly.

I always try to remember that sailing cats is about boat speed. The caveat to that statement is being familiar enough with your boat to feel the differnece in speed at differnt headings. If you trap out and have to vary your course 5 degrees (which is not much) to power up you give up around 30 boat lengths in distance traveled. Therfore you had better have a pretty significant increase in boat speed to make up for it. Solo the point of gain will be in much less wind as you have to provide some power to the sail. But remeber that in course racing not fully powering up as long as you are heading the right way is less on a negative than in a distance style event where dead downding runs are rare.

Gina and I sal pretty light, but at 12 knots (Where the white caps are just filling in) we are positioned with her still on the lee hull and myself just inside the weather hull. Using the Area D as an example against Olli and Kelly on thier Cap as my yard stick. ON day 1 we played it conservative and did not trap. It was gusty with lulls being around 16 and gusts in the upper 20's. We lost ground down wind here not trapping. On Sunday it lightened up a little and we stayed pretty even downwind not trapping while the the Cap continued to trap. The last races with the wind around the 16-18 we were even making up ground at the point where they continued to trap and I had moved to the middle of the tramp and Gina kept on the weather hull. They were still going fast but at this point our VMG was getting better.

Learn to feel the boat and sail where you are comfortable. As Robi pointed out, if you can not transition smoothly to trapping downwind any added speed is wasted anyway, especially on a short course.

M

Looks like I'll be staying on the tramp in the foreseeable future! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You're not getting off that easy....get out there and practice!!

Where's Robi ....

COME ON PETE, GET OUT ON THE WIRE .... NOW IN AND GYBE ... HEAT IT UP!!! ... BACK OUT ON THE WIRE .... GO GO GO

You know you can all come back here and practice for just a day any time you want. Better wind now that the cold fronts are making this far south. Have a good run at the Steeple chase!

Lets do it, before Tradewinds. Terry, Pete? What ya say? A day of sailing of Tims house. I gotta do some repairs to my boat, nothing major.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Lets do it, before Tradewinds. Terry, Pete? What ya say? A day of sailing of Tims house. I gotta do some repairs to my boat, nothing major. "

Work permitting! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

No. Remember it's still about speed over the water AND angles, not angles and then speed (my opinion always).

Dump the traveller and/or over sheet the kite.

I have some very rough numbers in my head for the Inter 17 regarding how much higher I can sail if I dump 18 inches and then all the traveller when the kite is up (and in lighter stuff it a fair amount).

You still need as much speed as possible and you should get that from wiring.

there is also the consideration of where you are going next.

If the next leg is a beat or non (no way) kite leg, then I'll let the kite take me deep if I have to, then drop and head up and then be ready for a nice rounding for the tight reach / beat.

If the next leg is another kite leg, then I'll work real hard to lay the mark with the kite up as (if you make it) you can then return to VMG mode and not have to drop and re-hoist the kite at the mark.

IMO sailing with the kite up when wiring is all about having a "grand plan", I try and answer the following q's before I put the kite up for a leg.

1, is it pure VMG (i.e. stay in as much wind and the right shifts)
2, is there any bias on the leg (do I need to sail more Port or stbd?).
3, is the leg after this kite up or down
4, is there much slower traffic on Port or stbd (looking for a clear passing lane)
5, do I need to worry about anyone behind me (are the faster boats that may pass, or do I need to protect my position).
6, do I need to think about phases of regular shifts

Given the answers to the above, a "plan" should present it's self...

1, If it's just VMG (so a pure run) then just go with the shifts / gusts but try not to bang a corner
2, If there is some bias on the leg, will I be on a lift or header when I round - If header and on the short leg, might be best to say on the header working on the principal that it will shift back in time to gybe back, if on a lift on the short leg, then gybe.
3, If so and it's a little tight and I am on a gust, sail high WITHOUT the kite up and then hoist and (hopefully) lay the mark and sail on with the kite up.
4, Passing slow traffic without a good lane can be a PITA, if loads of boats (esp if they don't have kites) - go the other way.
5, If you have people behind you, that you want to keep there, it pays to stay in the same band of wind if you can, they get a gust that you don't, thay can just sail around you and away.
6, On a header at the moment, stay with it. If on a lift, gybe.

All of those are trade offs against each other, and you can only find the answers with time.

It is really usefull to KNOW how much deeper you go for the average "gust" on the course on a day - this may allow you to work out if it's worth gybing on a gust that is a lift (you will loose something in the gybe), or just power off with more wind on the lifting gybe (but still going lower as you have more wind).

This last point is very true where I sail as we only usually have fairly small courses with a W/L of between 1 - 1.5 miles, so if fairly windy, the run may only take a couple of minutes, and so going an extra gybe might only cost you 15 seconds from wire to wire (when I've had some practice <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ), but that might be 5% of the time on the run.

Hope this helps....

Here's my schedule for the rest of Dec. This weekend I'll be flying to Tel Aviv. Next weekend, Bombay, that leaves the 23-24 (Chirstmas is Monday) and 30-31, but I might be at a horse show that weekend (30-31) I won't have my Jan. schedule until Dec. 17 but I'll let you know. You don't need me though, you can use my marks, they are in the back yard, under the canoe.

Where will the Corona's and Lime's be?

Tim; leave the drinks in the 'fridge, just leave the key under the mat! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'll tell the wife to leave the back door open! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Ooops, did I say that out loud?

Tim,
Good morning,
Have fun today
Sorry I can't make it

To watch Tim on line in real time
go here 4 hours from now : http://www.10doch.co.il/Caesareacamera.asp

http://66.165.158.190/weather/lab/wx.htm

Erez, I have just made it home about an hour ago. We had a great sail, very nice wind, a little lumpy sea, not like the nice flat water you and I had. We sailied from the club down toward Jaffa, in and out a few times, then back up to the club. We could double trap most of the first hour but then it started to lighten up and by 4 pm it was over. I had fun, did any of it show up on the camera? We were about a mile off shore so I doubt if you could see it from the beach camera.

Thanks again, Tell Itzak I had a great time and will see you next time.

Robi (or anyone), do you have a pic of the rear beam mounted block? My biggest problem (especially 1-up) is being pulled forward by the spin sheet. PITA.

I don't think they actually meant the block is attached to the beam. Robi set mine up for me. It is just a turning block attached to the tramp, with a bungee, near the the rear cross bar. The purpose is to keep the spin sheet from sliding out of reach.

I too am having problems sliding across the boat and plan to add some non-skid to the deck.

I was thinking a fixed block mounted on the beam so that the pull of the spin sheet would be more perpindicular to the hull, rather than forward. You would actually collect the sheet after the block in wiring conditions. Maybe be a PIA in 2-up mode. May try it and see.

The only reason I put that block where it is, is to pick up the slack on the spin sheet and it is extremely easy to grab the sheet once you gybe.

If I were to make the system fixed to the rear beam I will need a longer spin sheet.