Trey and all,

Have you tried splicing a hi-tech core into a loop?

I am thinking of using a small loop around the spin pole to attach the Jib halyard turning block.

Any thought on this?

Sure it's pretty simple. Do a brummel splice on each side, then taper and bury the tail back into the loop. Makes a clean strong loop.

Chris, check here... but it doesn't tell how to do a brummel splice which locks it better and you don't have to do whipping then. However, even without doing the brummel in out method, the eye will still stay. It is so easy you will wonder why you didn't do it long ago.
http://samsonrope.com/index.cfm?page=28

BTW.. anyone ever have spectra/amsteel actually break? If so, where and under what circumstances?

Mike,

I found the attached at Samson. Its and end for end splice. Is it the same as the double Brummel splice?

Thank you,

Andi Lutz is an ace at this splice, he made his own little splice tool out of a bent over bicycle spoke. I watched him do 4 of them in about 20 minutes total.

The first thing you do is make your loop, then pass the long end of the line through the short end using the spoke to pull it through. Then you pass the short end back and forth through the long end, maybe 3-4 times, then leave the tail up inside the long end, again, using the spoke to pull it through.

Maybe he can describe it better for you, or show a picture. He put loops on just about every peice of line to his spin pole, downhaul and spin sheets and they work great! Every place you would tie a knot, he has a loop splice. The hard part is measuring exactly where you want the loop, so the length is correct after you make the loop. But it saves you lots of knots and shackles and the spliced loop won't hang up on other lines when you are done.

Yep, It happened to me at Tradewinds on my N20. I ran a piece of Amsteel for my jib sheet. This is the part that I don't hold. The line goes through a block on the spin pole. This area is a place that wears on the line. I inspected it prior to sailing that day. I had run it for less than a year. The line was slightly fuzzy where it went through that block but didn't look like it was ready to break in any way. Going upwind in the heavy air it just snapped as my crew was sheeting in. I'm positive it was caused by wear and tear through that block. It just goes to show how I would never trust that stuff for standing rigging or trap lines. Just a little abrasion and load and it will snap in a heartbeat.

If anyone has an answer for this issue where the line binds against the spinpole I would be interested in the solution.

Mike Hill

Interesting, thanks for the reply. I am using it for trap lines and yours is a scarey story. After going through hell recently to get new diamond wires I was almost thinking of making some diamonds out of the stuff.

A lot of people use it for trap lines, but it is well-understood that you need to inspect and replace at any sign of wear or fraying. I made the mod to the Cap using 1/8-inch Amsteel after cutting the Ronstan blocks off the thimbles on the trap wires - the blocks were eating the 1/8-inch Excel Racing line at an alarming rate. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Trey Brown recommends spliced loops at both ends of the trap lines for a strong and polished finish. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I did 7/64 on the Jav for trap lines.. but did some for Mark Murray in 1/8 amsteel

Maybe it's the pilot in me but I don't like using line (or any equipment) that is so small, or light, that it could break when you need it the most. I really don't think in the bigger picture it "saves" all that much weight and if it breaks, will put you in a world of hurt.

Who needs the cost and agrivation of constantly inspecting and replacing all these new "high tech" non-covered lines all the time anyway? The first hurdle to winning is finishing. If your stuff is constantly breaking, what's the point? Yeah, it may be really cool and light but I've seen masts come down using that stuff for rigging and I've seen lots of busted traps, in the middle of a distance race when it's blowing, who needs that?

Is it really worth the trouble to replace a strong but heavy trap wire or line that never breaks, with a lighter high tech line that constantly needs inspection and replacement? That little bit of weight savings might make you one boat length faster but if (when) it breaks, you will lose a lot more than that.

You simply need to remember with this stuff that you are not dealing with a line that has a core. You are working only with the 'core' and when it breaks, it's gone. It takes amazingly few broken strands in a single braid to lead to a severed line.

Of all the lines that I've used (vectran, amsteel, etc.) the amsteel has proven to be the most wear resistant. I currently have some 1/4" weird coated vectran stuff on my trap lines that Trey showed up with one day...but come to think of it, that stuff still looks really good after a year. So ... nevermind.

I prefer Samson's Amsteel Blue, or FSE Robline's Ocean 3000. Both coat the fibers before the rope is spun. Most other 12-strands add the coating after the weaving process. The difference was significant when we tested for UV and abrasion resistance.

I've had 5/32 amsteel part mid-line. I was using it as a low mileage jib downhaul upwind on a Tornado in 25kts and 6' steep (building) wind waves., and it parted where it passed by the forestay chainplate. I could feel no sharp edges on the hardware, and vectran has worked fine in the same place, so either amsteel single braid is very chafe sensitive, or the line was somehow defective.

I've had no problems with Vectran or Spectra.

--Glenn

What is amsteel really? I know what spectra and vectran is, but amsteel.. Is it a special fibre, or is it a brand name?

think it is a brand name for the samson line

Amsteel is Samson's SK60 Dyneema
Amsteel Blue is samson's SK75 Dyneema

Ah, right.

Thank you Luiz!

For one thing, when wire frays, it develops "meat hooks" for your hands. That alone is worth the inspection for me.

Remember that steel needs inspection the same way that synthetic rigging needs inspection, it just doesn't have to be replaced as often. I drysail and check wires every time I put the boat together. At the end of the season I cut off all the rigging tape and thoroughly go over all the fittings looking for broken strands and other nastyness.

An ounce of prevention...