I inspected my rigging yesterday and found 2 broken wires on each of the side stays. The broken wires are right next to each other and are where the wire goes into the swage sleeve above the thimble. The stays are 1/8 inch/3mm 1X19 wire. I am going to get new rigging but I have a few questions.

1. Are the stays safe to use until I get new ones?
2. The stays are simple, just thimbles at both ends. Can I go to West Marine and make my own?
3. What is the difference in the different wires, 1X19, 7X19, dyeform, PBO/easyrigging?
Thanks in advance for the replies.

1. No. Don't ask me how I know.
2. If you're racing, check your class rules. Some classes have limits on size and type of standing rigging. If you're not racing, feel free to make your own.
3. Basically price and durability. If you're a recreational boater, I'd recommend the same size you already had and stainless.

1. No. Ask John how he knows.
2. Theoretically, yes. However, it's harder to do right than you think. Leave it to the guys who do it day in and day out.
3. 1x19 cable is one bundle of 19 wires. Strong and somewhat stiff. This is what wire standing rigging on beach cats is typically made from.

7x19 cable is 7 bundles of 19 wires each. It's much more flexible than 1x19, but not quite as strong. Trapeze wires and wire halyards / outhauls are made with this, but otherwise, it has few uses on beach cats.

Dyform wire is made from non-circular wires that pack closer together, thus giving more strength and less stretch than traditional wire cable at the same diameter. It's overkill for a beach catamaran.


PBO Zylon® (Poly(p-phenylene-2,6-benzobisoxazole))is a high performance fiber. PBO fiber has superior tensile strength and modulus to Aramid fibers (such as Kevlar, Technora and Twaron). PBO fiber shows excellent performance, in such properties as creep, chemical resistance, cut/abrasion resistance, and high temperature abrasion resistance, which far exceed Aramid fibers.

PBO fiber is quite flexible and has very soft hand in spite of its extremely high mechanical properties. A very expensive material, PBO offer high performance and light weight at a premium price. Again, overkill for a typical beach catamaran.

1) Nope. It's a big chance you take if you use it. A rig coming down potentially breaks a lot of other stuff.

2) Don't build your own. Just get it done right. I have a couple of boats a year that come in with failed Box Marine made rigging. Not to mention. I priced out Hobie 16 shrouds both from the factory and made at big box. The factory ones are $35 and the made ones, just in parts, came to around $60.

The factory ones are right. Call your local rigger, give them the length and wire size and have them go to it.

3) What those guys said.

J

Chris,

Wire Rope: Wire rope strands are circular and many strands are wound together to make "wire rope" ... the discription 1x19 means you have a single center strand with 19 more strands wrapped around the center strand .... so 7x19 means you have 7 center strands with 19 more strands wrapped around them. Now one style of wire rope is much more flexible then the other and therefore is used in different applications, standing rigging vs running rigging/halyards, Ok??

Dyform is a "high Tech" wire rope .... in normal wire rope all the strands a circular and therefore leave little spaces in between the strands when wound. In Dyform the strands are triangular (actually trapizodal) so that when wound together the strands are much tighter. Also the process of forming the strands into a trapizodal shape "work hardens"/strenghtens the strands resulting in stronger wire rope for the same size diameter .... some people like Dyform as you can reduce the diameter but still have the same strength.

I used dyform when I replaced the diamond wires on my P19 mast when I installed a chute but I used the same diameter since I was looking for more strenght for the increased loading.

Story Time:

I was at Ocean City Md for a race and I knew I had a single broken strand in one of my shrouds. It was blowing hard enough that they cancelled the racing for the day ... so we put the Magnum wings back on my TheMightyHobie18 and two of my friends and I went out for a quick sail ... so we hopped some waves ... reached along and then came back in ... quick sail, Ok. We de-rigged the boat and there was ONLY three strands left intact!!!! That quick ... I said my prayers to the man above as he was looking over us that day ... for we were being STUPID IDIOTS on that day in those conditions!!!!! So don't do what we did, you may get lucky or you may not ....

So don't ask JW how he knows ... I would just follow his advise .....

Harry

Lost a shroud anchor pin on my H-18.
$lost a full weekend of racing. After the pricing of my parts was done Jeremy had $500 in his shop and I changed my views on standing rig.
Everything on my boat changes every 2 year needed or not. Its alot cheaper than the alternative. Normally if you drop the rig you will break a sail. Want to take that risk.?

BTW...
If you go with Dyform, Navtec hasn't been stocking it for a while. I know that Buzz at Ballenger Spars in Watsonville has several spools of various sizes of Dyform. Call him up if you go with Dyform. He makes rigs for all sorts of boats including Aclass, 5O5's, whatever. Good family owned shop, top quality, good to deal with.

http://www.ballengerspars.com/

I live by the 2 year rule also.

Lots of good information here already (which I have pilfered and put into my files).

One brief addition. Don't throw away your old wires, keep them for reference! -- taking into account that they may have some stretch. They have no other practical value of course.

Getting the right lengths can be a major hassle. Thanks Jeremy, thanks Jeremy, thanks Jeremy. Did I say Thanks, Jeremy? I did!

That said, anyone use the tools on the market and make their own?

I would think that the shop people who make these all day long are the pros who measure correctly and have the swaging tools to do it right. IMO, getting the lengths and swages right is as important as the wire type.

I looked into making my own a few years back. The savings were very minimal. I was also told by the local rig shop that if I made my own then lost one due to failure then it increased the liabilaty I faced on the water.

I can make my own but since my wires all have a "Marine Eye Terminal" on one end I have them professional made. But having said that, I carry swages, extra new wire rope and the crimping tools in my spare parts as I've had to make a new shroud for a friend on Saturday night on several occations when they needed one and no dealers were close or open (imagine that on a Sat night).

Notes:
1) Always replace BOTH shrouds at the same time ... if one has failed the other is not far behind. (I always carry a new spare SET, once they come off the boat to be replaced, they do not ever go back on!!!! I immediately order a new set and place them in the sail box)

2) Save the old wires as there are many "non-critical" uses ... I've made awnings for the backporch ... staywires for various projects at the Yacht Club ... etc

And yah, I got that wrong on the 7X19 wire discription ... the first number is the number of wire bundles and the second number is the number of individual wires/strands in each bundle. Thanks Matt (I think my grey hairs are effecting my memory ....)

Harry

I tried being cheap ONCE. Made my own at WM, using their parts and tools. Failed the first day on the water.

Thankfully, it was "just" the trapeze wires, not the stays. Really upset the crew when she went for a swim though. I still can't believe that she held onto the boat for that long...

Mike

I beg to differ:
First, and by far the most important use for broken stays.... They are PERFECT for dousing (and raising) the turkey from the fryer when ready
2nd.. i stretch an old one from my livingroom area into my dining room area ... to hang and dry my main and or spinnaker after a bath!

Andrew,

I hope you are not using "covered" wire for that turkey ...

Hahahaha

Harry

Your DINING ROOM?

You must not be married...

I have been using Dyfrom on my Tornado for many years now...will never go back to 19 strand.

To make Dyform, they wrap normal strands together then force the bundle through a dye (hence "Dyform")...this squashes the strands into the trapezoid shapes and removed most of the air spaces between them. The work hardening typically increases the strength by 1/3. The reduction in surface area helps slow down corrosion issues. The individual strands are larger than typical wire rope, thus they outlast others before needing replacement. I've never seen a bit of Dyform with a broken strand. I do replace it and have fall back sets just in case...but I'm getting way better life than with the older type.

Mike.

I have; we broke one sailing last year on a Tornado; went with a HELL of a ping.

Went back to shore feckin quick I can tell you!!!!

No worries.. it melts right off .... and mmmm mmmmm good!

Your wife doesn't love to see a spinnaker from room to room dripping on everything?
My mail order bride came with a money back guarantee!


(yes, not married)

Ha,Ha,Ha,Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa (as I wipe the tears from my eyes)

Harry